Clinton calls Berry from Paris, urges support for gun control

WASHINGTON — As House debate over a juvenile justice bill ground on after midnight Wednesday, Rep. Marion Berry took a call from a fellow Arkansas Democrat asking his support in the looming gun-control battle.

It was President Clinton, calling from Paris, where it was about 5 a.m.

Berry, a supporter of gun rights, said Thursday that he had not yet made up his mind on the main gun-control issue -- requiring background checks of buyers at gun shows. He was one of many Democrats whom Clinton called throughout the day and night between meetings with European officials.

Clinton urged Berry and the others to vote against an amendment to the House gun-control bill that would allow 24-hour background checks at gun shows, rather than the three-day checks required by the basic House proposal and a similar measure that passed the Senate.

Supported by the National Rifle Association, the amendment by Rep. John Dingell of Michigan, the most senior Democrat in the House, represents a compromise between Republican and Democratic supporters of gun rights.

Many House Democrats are expected to abandon the more stringent proposal passed by the Senate in favor of Dingell's measure, which is also expected to attract many Republicans thought unlikely to vote for any kind of gun-control bill. Democrat proponents of gun control, meanwhile, were up against the powerful and well-funded gun lobby.

"The president said the Dingell amendment would weaken the Senate legislation and said he knows it's a tough vote, but we have to remember this is about keeping guns out of the hands of children and criminals," said White House spokesman Barry Toiv.

"I'm doing my best," Clinton said of his lobbying efforts. Speaking at a Paris press conference, he said he did not know whether he had succeeded. "I'm not close enough to have a good count."

Berry said he considers Dingell, with whom he has worked on legislation, "a wonderful man and a great friend." He also considers the president his friend. Berry acknowledged that he has talked to Dingell about the gun-control issue, but he insisted that he didn't commit to Dingell. Nor did he commit to Clinton.

The president, he said, is "very aware of Arkansas and the way this issue is viewed in Arkansas."

"We talked about the central issue, the background checks," Berry said. "He told me what he thought was the best approach. It was not about specific legislation. It was more of a general discussion of what we need to do, and that we probably weren't going to have the opportunity to do that."

Berry, like other members of the Arkansas delegation, said he was troubled by the way the House is handling the volatile issues of youth justice and gun control.

Usually, complex and debatable bills are reviewed and amended in committee before proceeding to the House floor. But the Republican leadership steered these two bills directly to the floor, resulting in days of chaotic debate on 44 amendments to the juvenile justice bill and another 11 amendments on the gun-control measure.

"This is another example of a lack of leadership," Berry said. "We shouldn't be writing a bill like this on the floor of the House."

The juvenile justice bill is "one of the absolute worst pieces of legislation I have ever seen," he said. "It's anarchy. It's nothing but a collection of 30-second ads for the year 2000 campaign."

But Berry did vote for perhaps the most disputed amendment to the juvenile justice bill, which would allow the Ten Commandments to be posted in schools and other government buildings in states that permit the practice.

"I don't think it does anybody any harm to read the Ten Commandments," Berry said.

Arkansas Republican Reps. Asa Hutchinson and Jay Dickey agreed with him, while Democratic Rep. Vic Snyder voted against the measure, which passed 248-180.

The Supreme Court in 1980 struck down as unconstitutional a Kentucky law requiring the posting of a copy of the Ten Commandments in each public school classroom. The court said such postings violated the required separation of religion and government.

Hutchinson said the amendment does not contradict the court's ruling, but he voted for it "because this is the way Congress has of having discussions with the Supreme Court.

"I was troubled somewhat by the language of the amendment, which is the result of not having hearings," Hutchinson said. "This puts everyone in the difficult position of being for or against the Ten Commandments. But it makes it clear that it's reserved to states as to whether to post that type of religious symbol."

Dickey said the Ten Commandments don't involve attempts at religious conversion.

"Our children need to be exposed to the fact that their actions have consequences," he said.

Snyder said the amendment is unconstitutional.

"The history of this country has been that we think we do best when the government does not pick and choose among religions, and in my opinion that's what this legislation would do," he said.

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