Baptists call for plan to make illegal aliens legal
This article was published June 16, 2011 at 4:17 a.m.
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PHOENIX — Meeting in one of the nation’s most heavily Hispanic states, the Southern Baptist Convention on Wednesday called for the creation of “a just and compassionate path to legal status, with appropriate restitutionary measures” for illegal aliens living in the United States.
Convention delegates, known as messengers, debated whether to strip that language from a resolution titled “On Immigration and the Gospel,” which had been crafted by the Committee on Resolutions.
But attempts to delete the wording failed by a vote of 766-723.
The overall resolution then passed by a show of hands.
Two-fifths of Hispanic Southern Baptists in this country are here illegally, Baptist leaders estimated.
The resolution calls on Southern Baptist churches “to be the presence of Christ, in both proclamation and ministry, to all persons, regardless of country of origin or immigration status.”
Baptists also voted to “deplore any bigotry or harassment against any persons, regardless of their country of origin or legal status.”
Baptists added a clause stating that the resolution should not “be construed as amnesty.”
Richard Huff, a Southern Baptist messenger from Tucson, Ariz., moved to strike any call for a pathway to legal residency.
If illegal aliens are allowed to stay, “we will be rewarding people who have broken the law,” warned John Killian, a messenger and pastor from Maytown, Ala. Accepting millions of illegal aliens is “a policy that’s completely unsustainable for our economy.”
Others warned that the measure was misguided.
“This is amnesty any way you phrase it,” said Wiley Drake, pastor of First Southern Baptist Church of Buena Park, Calif.
Paul Jiminez, chairman of the resolutions committee, defended the resolution.
“It is our desire that as churches see immigrants here among us, that our first question is not ‘What is their legal status?’ but the question, first and foremost, is ‘What is their Gospel status?’”
Jiminez, a pastor from Taylors, S.C., called the proposal, which also called for securing the nation’s borders, “a realistic and biblical approach to immigration.”
Former convention President Paige Patterson said he was “not surprised” by the vigorous debate.
“This is a very difficult issue for every Southern Baptist. ... We are torn as a people on this issue,” said Patterson, president of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth.
“On the one hand, to us, an illegal immigrant is just another person that Christ loves and died for, and we feel enormous obligation to such people. On the other hand, we are notorious for believing in being law-abiding citizens andhaving a country of law. So anything that breaks the law of the land, unless it’s for an intensely moral issue of some kind, we’re going to be in opposition to it.”
Richard Land, president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission in Nashville, said he backs a pathway to legal status for illegal aliens but knows the issue is contentious.
“I will tell you this, 40 percent of the Hispanic Southern Baptists in this country are undocumented,” Land said.
“They come here to work. We’re aggressively evangelistic. We evangelize them. They get saved,” Land said. “When we’re talking about undocumented people, we need to understand that a lot of them are fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.”
Jason Noel, pastor at Eastside Baptist Church in Paragould, said he supports a pathway to legal residency.
“I think that’s compassionate. I think that shows common sense. I think it’s a fair way to treat people,” Noel said.
Eric Moffett, pastor of First Baptist Church in Pocahontas, backed the measure, calling it “a good chance for us to show our love for those who have come to our country.”
“Our first call as followers of Jesus is to help the helpless, to love the unloved and to be there for people in need,” he added.
The immigration resolution sparked the most debate Wednesday.
Other resolutions, supporting the Defense of Marriage Act, calling for “civil public discourse” and affirming “the reality of hell,” passed overwhelmingly.
A final resolution, denouncing a forthcoming edition of the New International Version of the Bible, which uses gender-neutral language in some instances, also passed.
Attendance at the Southern Baptists’ annual meeting was the lowest since World War II.
Front Section, Pages 4 on 06/16/2011
Print Headline: Baptists call for plan to make illegal aliens legal
Comments on: Baptists call for plan to make illegal aliens legal
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RufustheRed says... June 17, 2011 at 5:34 a.m.
What are you? NUTS? we do not have enough tax dollars as it is and you want to add more people to the tax rolls. This just can not be. If they want to become citizens they must prove the can work and support themselves with steady employment. This just can not be.
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Reason says... June 17, 2011 at 6 a.m.
Sasha: I cannot follow your sentence structure. Are you saying that you do not want illegals on government assistance? I'm not aware of any government program of entitlements for illegals. Please explain?
I'm not familiar with Baptist Conventions and I fail to understand the dilemma about whether to follow God's law or man's law. Can a vote change God's law?
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benrose says... June 17, 2011 at 7:09 a.m.
Very well stated, Reason. As long as these doctrinal conventions continue to try to supercede God's law with man's legalistic political interpretations, God's people will continue to head directly to an extended stay in the desert wandering around wondering what went wrong.
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trouble06 says... June 17, 2011 at 9:18 a.m.
Reason, you may not be familiar with any government entitlement programs but they are there, SS, food stamps. I'm with Sasha. We don't have the money to support them any longer. Their anchor babies, the cost of educating, healthcare, they don't bother to learn our language, laws don't apply to them as they do for us. If they steal your identity it's not illegal. I bet if I stole your SS# and used it, my butt would be in jail. My sister worked at a manufacturing plant that employed illegals. They would work for an amount of time, leave for awhile, then come back under new name and new ID #. They still do that. Now they have E-Verify. I commented to a friend who works in the office of this plant, that it was good they had implemented E-Verify. She told me yeah, but there's ways around it. Go figure!!!!!!!
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Reason says... June 17, 2011 at 10:07 a.m.
trouble06: As usual....you produced no proof entitlements for illegals or illegals' being exempt from breaking our laws and certainly nothing you said addresses God's law. The children that are born in the United States are citizens and if you don't like them using your taxes....than they can use my tax dollars.
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trouble06 says... June 17, 2011 at 10:41 a.m.
Reason are you quite sure that illegals don't receive welfare? If they cross the border illegally then they have broken the law. God's law Knowing right from wrong. Breaking laws are wrong. Let them go back home and come back legally.
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RENEGADE says... June 17, 2011 at 11:18 a.m.
I finally got sick of reading all the garbage the liberals on here are spewing forth...so here I am..!!! Illegals are just that..illegal...and criminals..we don't "need " them here..I don't want them here and I am making it my life's mission to get rid of as many of them as I can...no matter what it takes. A swift kick in the arse and a hearty goodbye is all the deserve..same goes for their supporters/enablers!
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trouble06 says... June 17, 2011 at 11:53 a.m.
Reason I'll save you the effort. You might should check on one of the reason Kalifornia is BROKE. Illegals DO RECEIVE WELFARE, HEATHCARE.
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Coralie says... June 17, 2011 at 12:43 p.m.
So now Southern Baptists are liberals?
It's a new day!
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trouble06 says... June 17, 2011 at 12:53 p.m.
There's definitely many Churches that condone breaking the law. One of the statements of the article says..."They come here to work. We’re aggressively evangelistic. We evangelize them. They get saved,” Land said. “When we’re talking about undocumented people, we need to understand that a lot of them are fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.”
Then let them GO BACK TO MEXICO and evangelize there!!!!!!!!!!!
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UCAWHY says... June 17, 2011 at 1:10 p.m.
Well the Southern Baptist can then raise the money to pay for these anchors since they want them so bad. Please by all means raise the funds and save tax payers millions of dollars.
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Jjackk says... June 17, 2011 at 1:14 p.m.
“Our first call as followers of Jesus is to help the helpless, to love the unloved and to be there for people in need,” he added.
What is your calling? All your concerns are political, no Christian values like you claim.
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jetjohn says... June 17, 2011 at 1:18 p.m.
I'm all for being saved, but illegal is just that...ILLEGAL! These people are constributing NOTHING into our system. Their money goes back to Mexico and if American doesn't do something about this travesty soon, we will be a third world country like Mexico!!! I don't mind immigrants coming in the legal way, but these illegals are all criminals. They break the law the minute they cross the border!
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jackalope says... June 17, 2011 at 2:47 p.m.
In 2005 the Social Security Administration estimates that on about $75 billion in wages from people who filed W2 forms with incorrect or mismatched data, about $9 billion in taxes was paid.
This amount would include illegal immigrants using fake names and Social Security numbers. Although the influence on Social Security is considerable because most of the money received is never claimed by the illegal immigrant who pays into the system. Instead of the money returning to the rightful owner, it is used to cover the deficit in retirement checks payable to legal workers.
A study conducted by the Social Security Administration from census and Immigration and Customs Enforcement data in 2007 enabled them to project the effects of higher and lower immigration patterns.
They concluded that with high immigration the SSA's combined trust fund would be exhausted in 2043 and if the immigration numbers were half the amount, the fund would run out four years earlier.
And let's not forget that even if the immigrant in question is being paid "under the table" (something which also occurs with citizen workers), said immigrant still pays sales tax, property taxes, restaurant and bar taxes, excise taxes, tariffs for transferring money to another country, etc...
The 1996 welfare reform bill disqualified illegal immigrants from nearly all means-tested government programs including housing, Medicaid and Medicare-funded hospitalization assistance and even food stamps, The only services that illegal immigrants can still get is K-12 education and emergency medical care.
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MrsK says... June 17, 2011 at 3:27 p.m.
Jackalope...what you say is true if you go by the law, but if you don't which happens in my city the illegals use false ids and get every thing they need from the government. If they have an anchor baby they use the baby to get every thing from the government. The ones that stay under the law do pay local and state taxes, but they use the er in hospitals for their doctors and according to the the government surveys there have been 3 government funded hospitals that have had to close their doors because of non payment from illegals. They can also go to college on government loans (which are not repaid) and get grants, where some American people can't get them. And last but not least they are breaking our law just by being here.
Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:
Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.
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jackalope says... June 17, 2011 at 3:39 p.m.
"3 government funded hospitals that have had to close their doors because of non payment from illegals." Did these surveys specifically say "non payment from undocumented immigrants"? Or did they just say that the hospitals were closing due to non-payment, period?
How do you know the "illegals" in your city are obtaining false IDs and services from the government? Are you aware of the actual legal citizenship status of everyone you encounter? If so, are you aware if/whether they are receiving government services? Or are you just basing your assumptions on the fact that if you see a family who speaks another language, or have different color skin, using an EBT card "they must be illegal"??
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Jjackk says... June 17, 2011 at 3:48 p.m.
Then don't try saying that this county is run on Christian values. Because you surely don't run your life with Christian values.
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NickieD says... June 17, 2011 at 3:48 p.m.
First; I am looking forward to the time when any illegal, be they from Haiti or from Mexico or Mars, is not allowed to squeeze out a puppy and claim they have the right to stay and clog up our schools, courts and Gov't assistance programs.
Second; as usual the Religionists are only interested in their self-serving supernatural BS.
It is really too bad that Religion has anything to say about Secular Law at all. Why is it so difficult for Religions (especially the moronic Baptists) to keep their superstitious nonsense in their churches and stay out of politics... unless, of course, they would offer to pay taxes for the right to intercede in 'mans law'.
Anyone who has been in the SW knows those states are crawling with illegals. They are indeed a tax burden and though the bleeding hearts would love them all to stay, if those same Religious Leech Organizations had to pay Taxes, my bet is they would not be so anxious to spend their money on people who are busy overpopulating the planet and creating a drain on every hard working American's resources.
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Jjackk says... June 17, 2011 at 4:03 p.m.
So you're calling all these companies bleeding hearts? If there weren't jobs waiting for them they wouldn't come by the millions. But everyone ignores that. They don't "take" jobs away. They are given them. By who? Those bleeding heart capitalists. How many deportations are there and how many people are charged with illegal hiring? You want to pick and choose your laws.
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Reason says... June 17, 2011 at 4:06 p.m.
jackalope: According to the CBO there is NO cost analysis or data on illegal immigration and the cost that is cited on various websites is LEGAL immigration and U.S. citizen babies from all immigration.
Where did you get your cost analysis? Source, please.
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jackalope says... June 17, 2011 at 4:13 p.m.
the social security estimates lie here: www(dot)socialsecurity(dot)gov/OACT/NOTES/AS112/as112(dot)html
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trouble06 says... June 17, 2011 at 4:22 p.m.
But there is an analysis from Center for Immigration Studies. www(dot)cis(dot)org/medicaid-costs
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Reason says... June 17, 2011 at 4:31 p.m.
Jackalope: That is Social Security Area Population Project for 1997
Which states:
In 1990 an estimate census of 2.6 million illegal immigrants....???
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DontDrinkDatKoolAid says... June 17, 2011 at 5:13 p.m.
NickieD is right about one thing for sure, "It is really too bad that Religion has anything to say about Secular Law at all." but I would like to add, if the members of the Southern Baptist Convention would like to play with the big boys they should forfeit their tax exempt status, as with pay for their belief/agenda.
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Reason says... June 17, 2011 at 5:21 p.m.
Center for Immigration Studies is a conservative website that opposes Amnesty...
but it does state, "Illegal aliens remain ineligible for Medicaid beyond emergency services."
CSI bases their numbers from a 1986 Amnesty data and gives hypothetical numbers in the event that Amnesty is granted in the future based on LEGAL immigration numbers and cost.
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Reason says... June 17, 2011 at 6:58 p.m.
Jackalope: Sorry! I did find the info. The article is in USA Today News. Thanks!!
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trouble06 says... June 17, 2011 at 7:02 p.m.
This article states how the illegals are paid for their US born children. www(dot)articles(dot)latimes(dot)com/2010/sep/05/local/la-me-illegal-welfare-20100906
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RENEGADE says... June 18, 2011 at 12:14 a.m.
Send the illegals and all their supporters/enablers packin'
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Coralie says... June 18, 2011 at 4:24 p.m.
Jetjohn says "These people are constributing NOTHING into our system. Their money goes back to Mexico..." (Implies "all their money goes back to Mexico" although they obviously use some of their earnings to pay local realtors or landlords and merchants for food and shelter.
This kind of remark is an overstatement and easily refuted. Avoid using words like "never" "nothing" "all" "every time" etc. They are almost always part of an overstatement.
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Coralie says... June 18, 2011 at 4:26 p.m.
MrsK says "the illegals use false ids and get every thing they need from the government."
Everything?
Another overstatement.
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Coralie says... June 18, 2011 at 4:30 p.m.
Of course if this is just an occasion for venting one's emotions, say anything you like.
If it is supposed to be a forum or discussion, it would help to have something real to say.
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Reason says... June 18, 2011 at 6:02 p.m.
1984~Ronald Reagan: "I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime back they may have entered illegally," he said.
Amnesty was not the failure of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986.
Now read why the IRCA failed:
washingtonpost. com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/14/AR2006091401179. html (delete the space after the dot)
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LondonHawg says... June 18, 2011 at 7:29 p.m.
Send the Babtists and their illegal friends to a country where breaking the law is overlooked.......Mexico.......
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evanspe03210951 says... June 18, 2011 at 10:42 p.m.
Make 'em all legal: take names and give 'em numbers like we all have and collect taxes from them so that they are not a giant sucking sound gobbling up public assistance and funneling half the on/off the books money they are paid back south across the border.
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evanspe03210951 says... June 18, 2011 at 10:47 p.m.
The worst illegals cause really is that they might mow your lawn and keep your ornamentals nice, pluck feathers from chickens so others can eat, clean our houses and perhaps turn up drunk and rowdy at a 7 Eleven every now and then. Sounds like normal folks to me. Make them legal and make them pay taxes we all pay.
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urbuggnme says... June 19, 2011 at 3:20 a.m.
More pearls of wisdom to the less intelligent from coralie. What a gem you are to offer unsolicited advice on how to think, speak, post. Keep it up, and I'm sure you'll have everyone thinking, talking, and posting like you in no time!! I'm sure it is very appreciated by all!
"Coralie says...
Jetjohn says "These people are constributing NOTHING into our system. Their money goes back to Mexico..."
(Implies "all their money goes back to Mexico" although they obviously use some of their earnings to pay local realtors or landlords and merchants for food and shelter.
This kind of remark is an overstatement and easily refuted. Avoid using words like "never" "nothing" "all" "every time" etc. They are almost always part of an overstatement
Coralie says...
MrsK says "the illegals use false ids and get every thing they need from the government."
Everything?
Another overstatement."
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uss001 says... June 19, 2011 at 2:09 p.m.
NO AMNESTY FOR ILLEGALS!!!! DETAIN AND DEPORT ONLY!!!!!!
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Coralie says... June 19, 2011 at 2:55 p.m.
rockon, there are rules of engagement in argumentation. They have been known for centuries. I didn't invent logic.
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