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Beebe vetoes 20-week abortion bill
By
Lee Hogan
This article was originally published February 26, 2013 at 2:19 p.m. Updated February 26, 2013 at 5:34 p.m.
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Gov. Mike Beebe on Tuesday vetoed House Bill 1037, which would have banned abortions after 20 weeks of gestation.
The bill, sponsored by Rep. Andy Mayberry, R-Hensley, would have banned abortions at 20 weeks except for cases of rape, incest, to save the mother's life or prevent catastrophic injury to the mother's health or bodily functions.
Beebe said in his veto letter he opposed the bill because, "it would impose a ban on a woman’s right to choose an elective, nontherapeutic abortion before viability," and it "would squarely contradict Supreme Court precedent."
"When I was sworn in as Governor I took an oath to preserve, protect, and defend both the Arkansas Constitution and the Constitution of the United States. I take that oath seriously," Beebe wrote in the letter.
Mayberry based the bill on the disputed idea that 20 weeks is the point at which a fetus is capable of feeling pain.
The Arkansas Democrat-Gazette reported Friday that the bill would have a small affect on abortions in Arkansas, as the Arkansas Department of Health said 48 of the 4,033 abortions that took place in Arkansas in 2011 were performed at or after 20 weeks.
The bill arrived on Beebe's desk after it passed the House on Thursday in a 80-10 vote with no debate. The article said the 10 "no" votes were Democrats, and nine House members who did not vote were also Democrats.
Beebe told reporters that he respected Mayberry's "class" in dealing with the veto. Beebe said Mayberry did present other arguments, but in the end Beebe could not sign the bill, because it was "unconstitutional."
Lawmakers can override Beebe's veto with a simple majority. Republicans have majorities in both the state House and Senate.
"Hopefully [the veto] sends the right message, and they won't override it," Beebe said.
Another abortion bill, Senate Bill 134, is awaiting final consideration from the Senate before appearing on Beebe's desk, after it was passed by the House, 68-20, on Thursday.
The bill, sponsored by Sen. Jason Rapert, R-Bigelow, would ban abortions after 12 weeks if a fetal heartbeat is detected. The bill would require any woman considering abortion after 12 weeks to receive an abdominal ultrasound to determine whether there is a heartbeat.
The bill includes exemptions for cases of rape, incest or when the fetus is not likely to survive long after birth.
Beebe said Rapert's bill was "more problematic," but would not confirm that he would veto the legislation.
"They need to vote up or down to take whatever stance they need to take," Beebe said. "I'll do what I feel I need to do when it hits my desk.
"It would be kind of naive for me not to acknowledge to you, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm going to do on a bill that's even more problematic than the one I already vetoed, but I won't tell you officially until that time."
Opponents of both bills say they violate federal court precedent on how states can restrict abortion, and the American Civil Liberties Union has said it is prepared to take action against the legislation.
Bettina Brownstein, an attorney with the Arkansas chapter of the ACLU, says challenging the 20-week ban might have taken a while, but action would be taken immediately against Rapert's 12-week ban if it becomes law.
Read more in Wednesday's Arkansas Democrat-Gazette.
Comments on: Beebe vetoes 20-week abortion bill
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brado says... February 26, 2013 at 2:48 p.m.
Um, Roe Vs. Wade is not part of the Constitution of the United States, sir!
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ToTheLeft says... February 26, 2013 at 2:48 p.m.
Thank you, Gov. Beebe.
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edo1962 says... February 26, 2013 at 2:59 p.m.
Fire Beebe
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SCOTTandALISA says... February 26, 2013 at 2:59 p.m.
Thank you Gov. Beebe! Women do not use abortion as a means of birth control. Outlawing abortions will not decrease the number performed, it will only decrease the number performed legally. Let's take care of the children we have...(Alisa)
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HawgFan says... February 26, 2013 at 3 p.m.
"...that the bill would have a small affect on abortions in Arkansas, as the Arkansas Department of Health said 48 of the 4,033 abortions that took place in Arkansas in 2011 were performed at or after 20 weeks." Seems to me that this would not be a 'small affect' on the 48 souls that this bill would have saved.
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NoCrossNoCrown says... February 26, 2013 at 3 p.m.
Thank God someone at the capital still has a working brain and does not want to force their personal beliefs on every citizen of the state..... Thank You Gov. Beebe
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ERNIE66 says... February 26, 2013 at 3:04 p.m.
Thank you Gov. Beebe.
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adman2947 says... February 26, 2013 at 3:06 p.m.
Begin typing here... Brado, I suggest you go read this link. The Supreme Court has linked a woman's right to choice to the 14'th amendment and that the line for length of time is linked to the viability of a fetus to live outside the womb. Governor Beebe is right to not allow a law to be passed that is deemed to litigation that would waste mine and your tax dollars. The real way to combat the moral issue of abortion is to teach our children the responsibility and consequences of unwanted pregnancy.
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MKeen says... February 26, 2013 at 3:06 p.m.
Thank You Govenor Beebe. Republicans are always wanting to control how we live.
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23cal says... February 26, 2013 at 3:09 p.m.
I am amazed at the number of wingers who espouse fiscal responsibility but want to whiz away fruitless tax dollars on a question that is already legally settled. There is some kind of serious reality denial going on there.
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ROCKET12 says... February 26, 2013 at 3:09 p.m.
"nontherapeutic abortion before viability" ? Who are you or anyone else to decide viability ?
Dear Scott and Alisa: you are as ignorant as the un-educated, indigent, un-insured woman who DOES use abortion as a means of birth control. Get a grip on reality. It happens all the time !
Yes, I agree, Roe vs Wade is NOT part of the Constitution. Educate yourself, Gov !
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BossHog65 says... February 26, 2013 at 3:15 p.m.
I encourage the legislature to over ride Gov Beebe's veto. The excuses politicians make to uphold the murder of unborn babies. Shame on you Mike Beebe.
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Omni2012 says... February 26, 2013 at 3:15 p.m.
Thank you Gov. Beebe. The Rapert bill deserves the same thoughtful response.
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Packman says... February 26, 2013 at 3:16 p.m.
Governor Beebe is officially John Brummet's lapdog. A bill passes with overwhelming bi-partisan support and the governor vetoes it using a page from the weenie politicians playbook that he's concerned it might contradict court precedent. Never mind similar laws exist in other states and have survived court challenges. Just lost a lot of respect for Mike Beebe. Life means nothing him.
Hey ScottandLisa - About 3,000 women a day use abortion as birth control. What planet are you two living on these days?
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llllllll says... February 26, 2013 at 3:22 p.m.
This is still a human baby even in the case of rape, incest etc. It shouldn't matter. It is still a human life.
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Packman says... February 26, 2013 at 3:29 p.m.
Hey 23cal - "I am amazed at the number of wingers who espouse fiscal responsibility but want to whiz away fruitless tax dollars on a question that is already legally settled." Do you feel the same way about people who worked to "unsettle" legally settled law in, say, Plessy v Ferguson?
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str82day2001_yahoo.com says... February 26, 2013 at 3:32 p.m.
You exert your moral ground and pass your beliefs onto the public blogs and FB, but are you willing to step up and take action? You judge women and the decisions they face from your closed mind and antiquated "belief system" typing your judgments from your little chair. You are simple; likely uneducated about the world and the real socioeconomic issues us as a country face. You hate this, you oppose that, you exalt yourself above the liberalism or conservatism or the simpletons and the sheeple, but do you have the compassion it takes to think outside of the box? Maybe you are you a clone of your nurture basing your “points” off of a book that you likely haven’t even bothered to read. If you want to change something, change yourself. Stop typing words on the internet with the intent to make others feel bad all the while claiming to be a Christian. You likely don’t know Jesus if that’s all you have to offer. There is so much more to this issue and if you are simple enough to think there is anything easy about an abortion, you are ill informed. Thank you Mike, for standing up for our rights; womens rights. Because in the end, it is women that bear the weight of either decision they make. Never discount the enormity of this.
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Libertarian says... February 26, 2013 at 3:40 p.m.
Dare we say it? "When abortions are outlawed, only outlaws will have abortions."
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rainbowharold55 says... February 26, 2013 at 3:43 p.m.
Finally. Something good coming out of the Capitol.
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ARK1MXG says... February 26, 2013 at 3:46 p.m.
I had a teenage (17 yr old) friend who was forced at 20 weeks by her father to get an abortion. At 20 weeks, you can already tell the sex of the child. Unfortunately, it affected her being able to conceive in the future. A Womans body was not made to have a viable fetus ripped out. This is outrage. You would think being a parent or grandparent he would have more common sense. Young women do not understand the lasting mental anguish abortions cause. People who support this are just plain selfish. 20 weeks is halfway point of a full term pregnancy. Just sickening.
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CCNelson says... February 26, 2013 at 3:50 p.m.
I'm sorry I don't buy the excuse it cost $$$ to defend Legislation because he knows how the Supreme Court will rule. I say Bull & he thiks we are really stupid to buy that. If he doesn't like the law or agree with it just say so rather than give some lame, weak, limp excuse. I'm very disappointed in our Governor not because it's an abortion bill & I wanted it to pass, because our elected officials voted & passed this & he shot it down because of politics.
That's what his party platform is for, just like Washington Arkasnsas Gridlock to come.
Beebe was not from my party but I felt like he always did what was best for Arkansas was a very good Governor & didn't pay attention to his party pressure. All them At-A-Boys just went out the window Guv
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herenow says... February 26, 2013 at 4:02 p.m.
While I am opposed to abortion on personal ground I am not willing to impose my belief on another person,
Thank you Governor for thinking about this move by legislators who are trying to force their wills on all of us.
There is no easy answer but personal choice cannot and must not fall to those who can never know the anguish and frustration this abortion bill would have imposed on families.
I have little doubt the veto will be overturned, but thanks Governor for doing the right thing.
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edo1962 says... February 26, 2013 at 4:07 p.m.
I guess Beebe thinks he is a lot smarter than the 80 people that voted for this. Run it through again and unveto it
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ARMind says... February 26, 2013 at 4:30 p.m.
To edo1962 and all you other vocal right winger. One cool judgment is worth a thousand hasty councils. The nature of all men is so formed that they see and discriminate in the affairs of others, much better than in their own. Those who fight the woes of abortion have never been faced with the decision on their own.
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TheBatt says... February 26, 2013 at 4:30 p.m.
Thank you @brado for reminding us of the TRUTH.
Indeed - go back to the actual Roe v Wade decision and take a look at the suppose Constitutional grounds the court used - it makes absolutely no sense from a Constitutional, Legal, or Logical point of view, regardless of one's position on abortion. They stretched part of the Constitution completely out of context and even its plain wording to cover their decision.
Of course - we also know that the Supreme Court must be infallible - after all, the Supreme Court ruled in Dred Scott v. Sanford that no African-American is protected by the US Constitution because they are not and cannot be US Citizens.
Oh - wait - you mean the court has made very wrong decisions before? Like Roe v. Wade. Wrong in every sense of the word.
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Lesterday says... February 26, 2013 at 4:42 p.m.
Thank you Gov. Beebe. As a prof nurse I have personally assisted and experienced the miracle of birth. I am prolife; however I am here to tell you that Rapert, Mayberry or any of the other "men" who pushed for this bill have absolutely no right to tell me or any other woman what she can do along with her chosen medical advisor/MD. In most cases it takes a male to impregnate a female so maybe some of these lawmakers should consider a new tack------lets propose a tax/fine on each man when he impregnates a female and make him responsible for the care (for at least 18 years) of this creation as in
todays world many women are making their own living and forcing a woman to bear a child puts both at risk for a very difficult life. People stop trying to impose your beliefs on others and passing this bill or the other for that matter puts females back in the class of second rate citizens.
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nwar says... February 26, 2013 at 5:43 p.m.
Thank you Governor Beebe -- glad to see you standing tall for women and standing against the "forced pregnancy coalition of the ignorant." All you gun nuts seem to foppose proposed gun safety laws by saying they won't have any practicasl effect. Well why don't you apply that logic here? When are you people going to get it through your head that you can't force women to bear children they do not want? Oh you can probably cause some of them to die while trying to terminate their pregnancy. Is that your real goal?
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JakeTidmore says... February 26, 2013 at 5:56 p.m.
Thanks Governor. We needed a sanity break from the Republican onslaught on our freedoms.
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acuraman says... February 26, 2013 at 6:05 p.m.
If a Woman wants to have an abortion she will have one way or another.. This bill would have done nothing except cause women to drive to a surrounding state to do what they need to do... The new Republican Legislatures are trying to invade Women's rights instead of concentrate on issues they know something about.. Don't make Women do what you think they should do just because it is your own personal belief.. If the veto is overturned,, that's really no problem.. It's not far to a neighboring state that does not invade in Women's rights..
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acuraman says... February 26, 2013 at 6:09 p.m.
If a Woman wants an abortion she will have it one way or another.. This bill would have done nothing except cause women to drive to a surrounding state to do what they should be able to do in Arkansas. The new Republican Legislatures are trying to invade Women's rights instead of concentrate on issues they know something about.. Don't make Women do what you think they should do just because it is your own personal belief.. If the veto is overturned,, that's really no problem.. It's not far to a neighboring state that does not invade in Women's rights.. This should have been brought in front of the voters just like it was in Mississippi,, but looks like we got some real NAME Makers among us..
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LarryBassett says... February 26, 2013 at 6:20 p.m.
23cal says... February 26, 2013 at 3:09 p.m. "I am amazed at the number of wingers who espouse fiscal responsibility but want to whiz away fruitless tax dollars on a question that is already legally settled. There is some kind of serious reality denial going on there."
Ummm hmmmm! And it was once "settled" that blacks were not whole people and that women did not have the right right to vote. Do you claim, 23Cal, that we should revert to that "settled" law or do you agree that it was wrong and wrongly "settled"? And if you agree, then who but those who choose to avoid the real question of right and wrong would hide behind the cloak of settledness rather than engage in honest debate and expose their true convictions for debate and judgement in the public arena?
The governor's excuse for his veto appears as a cowardly, political way of avoidance of the real question so as to provide wiggle room for HIS future while, for the present appeasing his Democrat/Progressive/Liberal supporters. Neither he nor any other can have it both ways!
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windsor2200 says... February 26, 2013 at 6:27 p.m.
Thank you Governor Beebe for taking a principled stand even though you knew you would be pilloried by those who aspire to control women's bodies.
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LegalEagle52 says... February 26, 2013 at 6:53 p.m.
This may be offensive to some, but I will never understand why Democrats are baby killers, from the POTUS down to the podunk Governor of Arkansas! Losers!
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DerbiRider says... February 26, 2013 at 7:05 p.m.
Thank you Gov. Bebee for being a REAL man with a REAL brain not a tag-a-longer self-righteous zealot that feels he has a right to tell others how to think or live their lives. Hooray for the freedom, that gratefully, still exists in this free country to think and speak and act beyond the mindless right wing group mentality!
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23cal says... February 26, 2013 at 7:27 p.m.
LarryBasset....you play fast and loose with the term "settled". Blacks as not whole people was "settled" by constitutional amendment....but that isn't the kind of "settled" we're talking about here, is it? And the right of women to vote was "settled" by constitutional amendment also, wasn't it? But, again, that isn't what we're talking about here, it it? We are talking about established jurisprudence with precedent. You might try comparing apples with apples.
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What amazes me is that the anti-choice screamers like you aren’t calling for the best possible and simplest things to prevent abortions. That would be funding and promoting broad based sex education and making contraception free and readily available....So that fewer people have unwanted pregnancies!!!!! If you don’t want abortions, that is how you stop them. If, instead, you want to force your narrow minded moral views on to other people by using the government and the law as a cudgel, then you do......exactly what your legislators are doing.
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You want to "engage in honest debate"? Then why aren't you pressing your legislators to fund ways that will decrease unwanted pregnancies, which are the cause of abortions? It isn't a choice between an abortion and a giggling, cooing baby....because women always have had abortions and always will despite your legislating of your narrow minded view of what constitutes morality. It is a choice between a safe medical abortion and one done in a back room on a kitchen table with a coat hanger and a butcher knife. Anyone who describes forcing a desperate woman into that as "moral" has serious issues.
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Abortions are a consequence of spiritual, family, and economic factors. When marriages are strengthened and divorce rates go down, the number of abortions go down. When women escape poverty, abortion rates go down. When the healthcare and childcare options for women improve, the number of abortions go down. When women are in community with people who care and feel supported and encouraged, abortion rates go down. When women find hope, abortion rates go down. Your type of Legislation is not the best answer to the abortion crisis.
Providing free, reliable birth control to women could prevent between 41 percent and 71 percent of abortions in the United States, according to a study detailed in the Oct. 4, 2012, issue of the journal Obstetrics and Gynecology.
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But, your solution instead of addressing the causes is to send women to a butcher's table in a filthy back room. Somehow I fail to be impressed with your version of morality.
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Let's don't kid ourselves this is about abortion: this is about forcing your screwed up religious need to punish sex and to control women. If it weren't, you wouldn't be using such a sorry way of attempting to stop abortions, but instead would be using practical methods that have been proven to work.
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Mary57 says... February 26, 2013 at 7:33 p.m.
Thank you, Governor Beebe.
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rememberthealamo says... February 26, 2013 at 7:37 p.m.
Beebe the Baby Killer. Has a ring to it. But then again all demoncrats are baby killers.
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BillSmith says... February 26, 2013 at 7:39 p.m.
From the Letters to the ADG:
BETHANIE GRANT........ Allow my to do a little parsing of your statement. I need to add a couple of words, please bear with me.
Case 1: Bill banning Abortions.
Added the word sex.
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Not everyone in the state of Arkansas is informed well enough and educated enough to make the right decisions about SEX, and with these bills, the right choices will be made.
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Case 2: Supose these were bills banning GUNS?
Added the word guns.
Not everyone in the state of Arkansas is informed well enough and educated enough to make the right decisions about GUNS, and with these bills, the right choices will be made.
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How would you feel about Case 2 ?
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DontDrinkDatKoolAid says... February 26, 2013 at 7:47 p.m.
The actions of this Gov. makes a Republican Gov. more viable.
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Jesuswillsave says... February 26, 2013 at 8:37 p.m.
Hard to believe that people believe it OK to kill a child. Our moral condition is sad,
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GCW says... February 26, 2013 at 8:39 p.m.
Ha ha, you can't fire a lame duck elected official.
As far as I'm concerned it's a bill that would have done nothing but make money for some lawyers.
Our legislators are wasting our time and money. They should be fired. Oops, we're stuck with them too.
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Reason says... February 26, 2013 at 8:50 p.m.
Thank you, Gov. Beebe.
.
According to Article VI, the Constitution and laws of the United States are “the supreme law of the land.” Both state and federal officials, including judges, must take an oath to support the Constitution, even if state law contradicts it.
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Packman says... February 26, 2013 at 9:33 p.m.
Hey 23cal - Speaking of playing loose and fast with the term "settled", what about the settled law in Plessy v Ferguson (established jurisprudence and precedent)? What, the truth got your tongue? Do you have the ability to recognize apples and apples? The best and simplest way to prevent abortions is abstinence, silly 23cal. Hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars are currently being spent on sex ed and free contraception and some 3,000 unborn babies are being killed in America every day for mere convenience of the mother. If it's narrow minded to expect personal accountability from women who choose to have unprotected sex and to champion life, then I wear the label with pride. Mike Beebe just ensured Mark Pryor's defeat and that his successor will be a Republican.
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nwar says... February 26, 2013 at 9:47 p.m.
I would still like to hear from all you pro-forced pregnancy folks on the subject of fetuses with horrible deformities, illnesses etc. These are the ones you are talking about. So you want to force women to carry all these fetuses to term. Then what? Are you willing to pay to care for them? Even for the rest of their lives? Are you?
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tinarm says... February 26, 2013 at 10:04 p.m.
I just wonder if people who are republicans and religious realize that each and everyday they sound more and more like the Taliban.
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NoCrossNoCrown says... February 26, 2013 at 10:14 p.m.
Finally, one day of sanity at the state capitol, but the nutcase right wingers will be back at it tomorrow.....along with the spinless Dems who, for fear of loosing their seat voted for this unconstutional, growing intrusive grovernment, feel good crap legislation.....
If the wingers spent half as much time trying to pass meaningful laws, instead of envading into the personal decission that should ONLY be between a woman and her doctor or trying to turn AR into the wild wild west with guns at every turn, maybe AR would not be considered as backwards as our neighbors to the south, west and several states to the east.
God only knows what these Bozo's will offer up next and continue to play the "god card" to get their small minded minions to follow their stoopid decisions...God help us!!!
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23cal says... February 27, 2013 at 7:22 a.m.
Packman:
Why, yes, I have the ability to recognize apples and apples. Do you have the ability to recognize fiscal responsibility?
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Your suggestion that because the SCOTUS made an extraordinarily rare reversal in Plessy means that it is prudent fiscal responsibility to pass an unending stream of bills that fly in the face of established jurisprudence with clear cut precedence and which require the expense of huge amounts of taxpayer dollars to defend on the off chance that they might hit the legal lottery and someday maybe hit one that results in another extraordinarily rare reversal is .......obviously ridiculous.
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That they might get lucky with a Plessy type reversal so they should pass bills that deny established jurisprudence means they should do it on every single topic for which they pass bills, because your Plessy excuse justifies everything, not just abortion. The inevitable expense for the highly unlikely reversal maybe someday sometime on some topic is anything but fiscal responsibility.
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Populist says... February 27, 2013 at 8:25 a.m.
As somebody who is an adoptive mother and usually against abortion on moral grounds, I have very mixed feelings about this bill and the veto. People do use abortion as a means of birth control, and this is morally unacceptable. While the bill did include an exception for babies who were not likely to live long, that standard is a little fuzzy and would not allow the abortion of babies with extremely horrible birth defects but which would otherwise live. If you have ever read Roe V. Wade, you would realize that the Court discusses a balancing act of interests including the unborn child. With medical advances, twenty weeks is getting awfully close to viability. Perhaps, instead of fighting each other and getting angry on this issue, we could think of constructive middle ground to decrease the number of abortions. Adoption laws which allow the reasonable expenses of pregnant women to be paid by adoption agencies would result in fewer abortions and more adoptions. I actually believe that contraception should be available free of charge. While there may be constitutional limitations on curbing abortions due to rights of privacy, there is nothing stopping private organizations and the public from trying to prevent the number of abortions by decreasing the number of unplanned pregnancies and by promoting adoption as an alternative. I think that some of the liberals are in denial when they think that it is not harmful to the woman to have an abortion. I don't understand how someone could abort a healthy fetus and not feel guilty about it forever.
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ladyLiberty says... February 27, 2013 at 9:14 a.m.
Hip Hip Hooray! this is a brave intelligent man to veto that hate bill against women and doctors. if arkansas starts rebelling against the USA laws where will it end? ok lets not pay our taxes, lets not obey the constitution. this is a dangerous mindset. Beebe was right to vetoe this bill.
the state lawmakers need to go read their job descriptions again. stay out of moral law and God's judgements, leave that to the learned PHD theologians and churches.
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BillSmith says... February 27, 2013 at 9:16 a.m.
Packman ..... FYI ....Texas’ teen pregnancy ranking: 4th highest
The state refuses to accept federal funding for sex-ed programs that aren't abstinence-only, because its "first choice is that teens chose not to have sex.
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What say you Mr. packman about your advice on abstinence only sex education.
Sara Palin said "Just say No" and how did that work out for her daughter Bristol?
Cat got your tounge?
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NonComposMentis says... February 27, 2013 at 9:55 a.m.
Abortion is murder. Cheers for Andy Mayberry!
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KevinBooth says... February 27, 2013 at 10:04 a.m.
Thanks Gov. Beebe. I think you are one of the few at the Capitol that has any sense left.
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Shep11 says... February 27, 2013 at 11:37 a.m.
Kudos Gov. Beebe. This gives me hope for this great state.
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Populist says... February 27, 2013 at 11:37 a.m.
BillSmith is entirely right. With its high rate of teenage pregnancy and the resulting poverty, health education in Arkansas schools should discuss birth control and not abstinence only. Attacking teenage pregnancy should be a number one priority.
It never ceases to amaze me that Conservatives only care about a child before it is born and liberals only care about it after it is born.
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NutButter says... February 27, 2013 at 1:16 p.m.
You know I am always amazed that a pregnancy is always the woman's problem as though the "sperm donor" had nothing to go with the pregnancy.
Rush Limbaugh & most all of the other conservatives act speak as though this is only the woman's fault that she is pregnant.
How stupid & ignorant is that?
She did not get pregnant without a complicit male being involved. And, if he wanted to avoid a pregnancy, why wasn't he more "careful" or abstinent.
I get it!!! He is not too concerned about the consequences.
Also, if killing, murder, taking a life is so precious to most of these conservatives, why do they think it does not count as murder to "rush" to war and ignore the civilian casualties?
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NutButter says... February 27, 2013 at 1:18 p.m.
Ban abortions????
They kill.
Ban guns??????
They kill.
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NutButter says... February 27, 2013 at 1:23 p.m.
Conservatives like to force a woman to have a child, but they balk at the very idea of their taxes helping feed and educate the same child.
Shame on these "caring" individuals.
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TomN says... February 27, 2013 at 3:14 p.m.
Unfortunately, the specious arguments and hyperbole herein expressed has only added more heat than light to the subject at hand. This is not liberal versus conservative, Republican versus Democrat, etc. This is barbarism versus civilization. Bottom line, at some point life and individuality begin. And surely civilization and its ideals always respect life. The question is when does life begin? Some say at conception (historically the Catholic Church has strongly led this charge). Others say at viability (that is when survival can occur with outside assistance). Then others say at survive-ability (that is without outside assistance). Even the greatest minds agree, though, that at some point, there become two individuals, and it becomes not about just the mother any more. There becomes another life or individual to consider, etc. It has already been pointed out that of the thousands of abortions performed in Arkansas each year there were only 48 performed at or after 20 weeks this past year. Surely, excepting the exceptions where this law makes provision (rape, incest, etc.), we can all compromise and agree that an impregnated person can make a decision by 20 weeks into their pregnancy whether to carry full term. And, most surely, as a civilized people, we can agree that partial birth abortions are absolutely abysmal and immoral.... Just saying, can we not bring a little logic to the subject?
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BillSmith says... February 27, 2013 at 11:27 p.m.
Packman...... With your way of thinking this could happen Arkansas if you and the rest of the nuts get you way.
November 16,2012 in Ireland
Earlier this week, the world reacted to the news that a hospital in Ireland refused medical care to a woman during her miscarriage and she eventually died from blood poisoning. Savita Halappanavar, a dentist, began slowly and painfully miscarrying at 17 weeks into her pregnancy, but University Hospital Galway refused to terminate the pregnancy because a fetal heartbeat could still be detected. Halappanavar and her husband, who are both Indian and Hindu, repeatedly asked for an abortion but were told no because Ireland is “a Catholic country.” Within days, the fetus died inside Halappanavar and was removed, but it was too late; she died soon after at age 31 from blood poisoning and E.coli ESBL
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BillSmith says... February 27, 2013 at 11:29 p.m.
Packman..... just in case you mention something about the life of the mother in the bill.
In Ireland, abortion is banned in the constitution, but a 1992 court decision decided a woman has a legal right to an abortion if her life is at risk.
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Populist says... March 1, 2013 at 6:54 a.m.
TomN,
You and I agree on this totally. While I do not mind people discarding embryos with Tay Sachs, Marfans, neurofibromotosis etc, I think people should be able to decide by 20 weeks to carry the baby to full term. Doctors only should have the discretion to do it latter when the mother's life is at stake or the baby is horribly deformed and cannot expect a decent quality of life. A one pound 10 inch baby is a baby.
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