Arkansas Senate overrides veto on abortion bill
By ANDREW DeMILLO The Associated Press
This article was originally published February 28, 2013 at 9:16 a.m. Updated February 28, 2013 at 10:42 a.m.
PHOTO BY AP/DANNY JOHNSTON
Rep. Andy Mayberry, R-Hensley, straightens his tie before speaking to reporters in a hallway outside the Senate chamber at the Arkansas state Capitol in Little Rock on Thursday, Feb. 28, 2013. The Senate voted Thursday to override Gov. Mike Beebe's veto of Mayberry's bill banning most abortions starting in the 20th week, a day after the state House voted to override it.
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How senators voted on the 20-weeks bill
YES: 19
Republicans (19): Bledsoe, Caldwell, Clark, Dismang, English, Hendren, Hester, Hickey, Holland, Hutchinson, Irvin, Key, King, Lamoureux, Sample, Sanders, Stubblefield, Williams, Woods
NO: 14
Democrats (14): Bookout, Burnett, Cheatham, Chesterfield, Elliott, Flowers, Ingram, Johnson, Lindsey, Maloch, Pierce, Teague, Thompson, Wyatt
NOT VOTING: 2
Republicans (2): Files, Rapert.
FILE - In this file photo taken Feb. 7, 2011, Sen. Michael Lamoureux, R-Russellville, speaks during a legislative committee meeting at the Arkansas st...
LITTLE ROCK — The Arkansas Senate voted Thursday to override a veto of a near-ban of abortions starting in the 20th week of pregnancy and backed a separate measure that would outlaw the procedures in most cases beginning in the 12th week.
The Republican-led Senate voted 19-14 along party lines to override Democratic Gov. Mike Beebe’s veto of the 20-week bill, a day after the GOP-led state House voted to override it. A simple majority was required in each chamber.
That law, which took effect immediately, is based on the contested claim that fetuses can feel pain by that point.
Senate President Michael Lamoureux, R-Russellville, supported an override but told reporters afterward he was unsure whether the ban would survive a constitutional challenge.
“If it was an easy answer, then people wouldn’t be raising that subject,” he said after the vote.
Minutes after overriding Beebe’s veto, the Senate’s voted 26-8 in support of the measure that would outlaw most abortions starting in the 12th week of pregnancy, sending it to Beebe for consideration. He must decide by next week whether to sign or veto it.
Rita Sklar, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Arkansas, said she was disappointed with the Senate’s override and said her group was now looking at suing the state over the new restriction.
“We are going to do everything within our power to protect the health and reproductive decision-making abilities of women and in this case that includes looking very carefully at litigation,” she said.
Beebe said he thinks the new law contradicts the U.S. Supreme Court’s 1973 Roe v. Wade decision, which legalized abortion until a fetus can viably survive outside of the womb, which is typically at 22 to 24 weeks. He said the state will waste money trying to defend it.
Sen. Bruce Maloch, D-Magnolia, previously voted for the 20-week ban but said he voted against the override out of deference to Beebe and the concerns the governor raised over the measure’s constitutionality.
“These bills are a real dilemma for people who are pro-life, but still there are constitutional concerns. It does really tear at you,” Maloch said.
Sen. Larry Teague, D-Nashville, who voted for the 20-week ban initially but opposed the override, had similar concerns.
“The budget’s tight. We’re working on giving businesses and individuals some tax relief. I don’t think it makes sense to spend money on expensive litigation,” said Teague, who is a co-chairman of the budget committee.
The near ban of abortions starting in the 20th week of pregnancy is based on the disputed claim that a fetus can feel pain by then and therefore deserves protection from abortion.
Seven states have enacted similar 20-week restrictions based on the fetal pain argument, according to the Guttmacher Institute, which tracks laws affecting women’s health. A similar law in Arizona has been blocked while a federal appeals court reviews a lawsuit challenging it.
The Arkansas bill is based on research the bill’s sponsor, Rep. Andy Mayberry, and other abortion opponents cite that fetuses can feel pain at 20 weeks. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, however, says it knows of no legitimate scientific information supporting the idea that a fetus experiences pain.
The 12-week bill is based on the argument that a fetus should be protected from abortion once its heartbeat can be detected during an abdominal ultrasound. The governor has not said whether he’ll veto the bill but said earlier that he has constitutional concerns with the measure.
Sen. Jason Rapert, R-Conway, the sponsor of the 12-week ban, said Beebe should let the measure go into law without his signature.
“I respect his opinions and what he has to do as an individual, but I believe he should honor the vote of the Legislature,” Rapert told reporters after the vote.
Comments on: Arkansas Senate overrides veto on abortion bill
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Walklady says... February 28, 2013 at 9:35 a.m.
Tell me WHY a woman who gets pregnant by rape or incest, OR has a fetus with abnormalities should be forced to go thru the pregnancy? And then there are women who do use protection, and end up with an unwanted pregnancy. IT IS NOT YOUR BUSINESS IF IT IS HER CHOICE TO END THE PREGNANCY. This religious mentality is ridiculous.
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gwen9 says... February 28, 2013 at 9:42 a.m.
It's not a religious mentality Walklady......It has to do with MURDER of an unborn HUMAN BEING!!! Geez..... The "female" is not the only one with rights here! How bout the father and the UNBORN BABY??
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chiefmom says... February 28, 2013 at 9:47 a.m.
It's easy to support abortion if you AREN'T the one being murdered. Thank God for the members of our legislature who have the courage to stand up for LIFE. And may God have mercy on those who support the death industry of abortion.
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ddasm307311122 says... February 28, 2013 at 9:50 a.m.
thank you gwen9
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faytown says... February 28, 2013 at 9:52 a.m.
neither religious nor political beliefs are relevant. bottom line our idiot lawmakers just created a law they know is invalid due to the long held ruling of the us supreme court. it is a total waste of time, money and is political pandering at its worst
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HOG65 says... February 28, 2013 at 9:56 a.m.
Both of your arguments are meritorious, BUT, the Governor's prediction of a long, expensive legal battle will prove true, as will his prediction that this law will be determined unconstitutional.
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Walklady says... February 28, 2013 at 10:03 a.m.
Thank you faytown & Hog 65. This whole issue is fraud, waste and abuse of the taxpayers money!
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HappytobeHere says... February 28, 2013 at 10:07 a.m.
I think that if everyone who is pushing so hard to make decisions for everyone else were forced to raise & pay for several of these unwanted or handicapped children, they would be shutting the heck up on the issue of abortion. How can you be so interested in reducing social funding and keep fighting this issue? The abortion issue has been settled several times by the federal courts. Why are our so-called smart legistrators still beating this dead horse? I guess they have buddies who are attorneys who will get richer from our tax dollars to fight this in court again.
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HotSpringsLawyer says... February 28, 2013 at 10:11 a.m.
Just recognizing that it is time to put these uppity women and their "rights" back in the proper (subservient) place.
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PapeJoe says... February 28, 2013 at 10:21 a.m.
Stats show the ratio of abortion is the same in countries (even third world nations) where it is against the law as it is in counties where it is legal. This being the case, should we not be pursuing other avenues to help elevate this situation?
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Beeper589 says... February 28, 2013 at 10:22 a.m.
Regardless of your moral or religious beliefs, this law is unconstitutional and will cost the State of Arkansas a great deal of money defending this ridiculous law. Get ready for the ACLU and women's rights groups to challenge this and Arkanasans should be prepared to spend all kinds of money that we could use for more important issues. My beliefs, my body, my choice. Your beliefs, your body, your choice. This is what the Supreme Court decided in 1973 and it still is the law today.
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Walter says... February 28, 2013 at 10:28 a.m.
Walklady, if the pregnancy is the result of rape, incest, or the fetus has abnormalities,
it can still be legally aborted BEFORE the 20th week of the pregnancy.
Personally, I'm tired of picking up the tab for abortions done for no reason other
than the woman changing her mind after getting pregnant by some loser,
then aborting the baby (usually at taxpayer expense) when he walks out on her.
Do you ever think for yourself, or do you let the news media do all your thinking?
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sher128 says... February 28, 2013 at 10:37 a.m.
What Father! Most of these men are long gone and want no part of supporting the baby or mother! Where are the laws for punishing these men who just get women pregnant. Why must women pay the price and do it all own their own. If men could get pregnant this would not even be an issue...of course they should have the right to end an unintended pregnancy! Why should a man be forced to do anything they do not want to do...especially something that would have permanant ramifications!
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sher128 says... February 28, 2013 at 10:39 a.m.
What Father! Most of these men are long gone and want no part of supporting the baby or mother! Where are the laws for punishing these men who just get women pregnant. Why must women pay the price and do it all on their own. If men could get pregnant this would not even be an issue...of course they should have the right to end an unintended pregnancy! Why should a man be forced to do anything they do not want to do...
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Dangarn says... February 28, 2013 at 10:43 a.m.
This topic is way to serious to be sarcastic. We would rather argue and call each other names. We need intelligent debate and solutions. I have not read any of that here, just sarcasm, name calling and bullying but, why should we be any different than out esteemed leaders in Washington.
Of course, free speech does mean that you have to let me speak openly for the very thing you despise and I have to allow you to do the same. Liberty is hard isn't it?
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NoCrossNoCrown says... February 28, 2013 at 10:45 a.m.
Get ready for the state to pay lots of money to defend this bill..
I'll bet the first lawsuit is filed before the ink is dry....as it should be....
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harley1305121514 says... February 28, 2013 at 11:05 a.m.
The part of all of this is the findings of the American College of Obestetricians and Gyencologist. They find no scientific evidence that the fetus feels pain when aborted.
The coroner can't find scientific evidence of the dead man on the table after he has been gunned down either. The dead can't tell you anything about "whether it hurt or not"......THE DEAD BABIES CAN'T TALK AND WERE NEVER ALLOWED THE OPPORTUNITY TO SAY ONE WAY OR ANOTHER! Kill the mother after the abortion and try asking her if she experienced any pain!!!
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HotSpringsLawyer says... February 28, 2013 at 11:12 a.m.
The Legislature does not know when life begins, or whether a fetus can feel pain, and neither do any of us. So how can they justify imposing their own guess upon all the citizens of Arkansas?
Nobody is "pro" abortion, at least that I know, but everyone should be pro-Woman, and respect womens' rights.
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edo1962 says... February 28, 2013 at 11:46 a.m.
Senate gives kids a chance! Thank you for standing up for the Children
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EDW says... February 28, 2013 at 11:53 a.m.
The law is not necessarily unconstitutional. The only federal court that has ruled on a similar law has held it to be constitutional. It is now at the court of appeals. Since that fight is already ongoing without us, it may not be challenged. However, even if it is, the last time a law was challenged like this is only cost $120,000 and not the millions every talks about.
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pudge says... February 28, 2013 at 11:58 a.m.
Hot Springs Lawyer-Do you know how little sense your response makes? Do you really think that anyone believes that the baby at 20 weeks or so gestation does not feel pain? If so, you need to keep searching for the TRUTH.
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Lakeview says... February 28, 2013 at 12:04 p.m.
I have said it and I will repeat it again. The subject is NOT about religion. It IS about MURDER. Now this will shake the rafters. Obtain a DNA sample when a drivers license is issued and store it in a data bank. If the infant has a nonsupportive father and is murdered check the DNA and find the father and hold him responsible.
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Beeper589 says... February 28, 2013 at 12:04 p.m.
edo1962...would you like to take all these unwanted children to raise yourself? I'll bet all of you lauding the State House and Senate for passing this "thing" are the first ones to call out the "thugs" for the crimes they are committing all over Little Rock these days. Could it possibly be that they were the result of an unwanted or unintended pregnancy and received all the nurturing parenting they deserved as a child? Sorry for the sarcasm but I am personally very tired of both side of the aisle trying to force their belief systems onto others. We need to learn to be tolerant of each other and work toward the betterment of our community together instead of all this pointless bickering.
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ToTheLeft says... February 28, 2013 at 12:12 p.m.
If you don't believe in abortions, don't have one. No person has the right to tell another what she can or cannot do with her body. Oh wait, the Taliban does.
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HawgFan says... February 28, 2013 at 12:14 p.m.
Hopefully this decision will save some innocent lives.
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jetjohn says... February 28, 2013 at 12:23 p.m.
Beeper589.....you talk about the thugs, their mothers wouldn't want to abort them, because they receive a CHECK for them from the government!!!!
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Popsmith says... February 28, 2013 at 12:38 p.m.
Maybe, while the lawyers are getting rich, a few lives will be saved. Something about the Right to Life in the Bill of Rights.
Maybe the Supreme Court will listen to the majority of people in this country.
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HotSpringsLawyer says... February 28, 2013 at 12:41 p.m.
Nothing is too serious for sarcasm. For instance, Jonathan Swift's use of A Modest Proposal to protest treatment of starving children in Ireland, or Tutillian's Apology attacking Roman prosecution of Christians.
Or Mark Twain: “Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of [the Arkansas Legislature]. But I repeat myself.”
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HarleyOwner says... February 28, 2013 at 1:04 p.m.
I agree with an earlier post. Only white women get abortions. The black women want that baby for extra welfare money.
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harley1305121514 says... February 28, 2013 at 1:23 p.m.
Beeper589.....could it be the thugs of today WERE wanted babies at the time and just decided to go bad later? Most of the crimes committed today aren't by babies or even most teenagers.
It could be the way you stated but it might NOT have been. What point were you trying to make. Also if you are getting tired of both sides of the aisle trying to make you decide one way or the other, ignore it all, don't read the articles printed and don't extend your frustrations by posting and then getting more reactions to your post! If you are anyone else lets someone else make your personal decisions then that is a sign of weakness on your part.
HotSpringsLawyer......nothing? How about a death of one of your family members? Could you really throw out your scarcasm at that? Are you really a lawyer? And NO I am NOT really a motorcycle!!
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edo1962 says... February 28, 2013 at 1:34 p.m.
I stand by what I posted! This forces the person to think a little harder about the chances they are taking now. They may have to be accountable for the life of the Child, which they should be. We teach our Children to be accountable, so I guess we need to be an example. When they play, they have already made there choice.
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karjona01071443 says... February 28, 2013 at 3 p.m.
test
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ARMind says... February 28, 2013 at 3:14 p.m.
There is a homely old adage which runs: "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far." The congressmen have made a major miss calculation with this call today and they will find out at the next election. We will carry our sticks to the next polls. You have made a call that does not match up with the masses. You will find that money will not buy your way in next go around. It is time for the people to show these idiots who is really running our government.
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hailcall says... February 28, 2013 at 3:34 p.m.
I think since abortion's seem to have no moral dilemma we ought to let the mom take a look at her newborn and decide whether or not she want's to keep it. Or better yet....be able to take the baby home for a few weeks and then return it to be euthanized once she makes up her mind. There's really no difference in the two options.
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edo1962 says... February 28, 2013 at 3:46 p.m.
Will not respond to Steve. Trying to keep this civil. Ron- Democrats controlled this state for decades. It was time to man up and get things done. The majority does agree with this. They got this one right. I have said my peace.
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ARMind says... February 28, 2013 at 4:12 p.m.
I dare say that you don't have a clue edo1962. We no longer have separation of Church and State. Churches are preaching politics instead of God words. That is why the majority of the people of this state no longer go to Church. So, no the majority do not suppose this call and the women have a major voice that will show you and others. The big stick will also demonstrate you don't have a clue.
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dimebag says... February 28, 2013 at 4:30 p.m.
MD i think by the number of folks that have talked to their reps about this bill and the fact that it passed, twice, should show you that there is overwhelming support for this, state wide. i am sorry but my opinion is that the night before is the time for choice, not weeks later. with the sheer amount of free birth control available now, there should be an extremely limited number of unwanted pregnancies.
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ARMind says... February 28, 2013 at 4:51 p.m.
Only time will tell the story. Its my bet that it doesn't make it pass the Supreme Court. I'm just so sick of this issue being more important than all the other problems this country faces. Why are we not addressing jail time for the fathers who help produce the unwanted child. This sounds like a more viable solution to correct the problem. Men would likely think more strongly about the issue and women would have less need to abort.
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razrbacker196107191542 says... February 28, 2013 at 5:34 p.m.
Funny how liberals love to preach about the money involved in taking care of unwanted children, and the rape & incest vicitms, (which total less than one percent of abortions, btw). You want to use that logic, fine by me...let's take the next step in your short bus thinking, and just defund SSI and welfare altogether, since your definitions of life include being able to sustain life on your own. Now THAT would be a money saver! And old people are a waste on our resources as well as the mentally challenged, so no more help for those slackers either! Didn't Hitler feel the same way as you "Pro Death" people? Calling it a "procedure" will make it more palatable, (kinda' like calling them showers rather than gas chambers did, a long time ago). Adolph and Margaret Sanger would be so proud! How about this? You make a baby, YOU suffer the consequences of your behaviour, and your family does, as well, since they didn't teach you the value or impacts of personal decisions. I know personal responsibility is such an antiquated term for many these days, but stretch your mind, or google it, even! I love how supporters say it's THEIR body, but WE still end up paying Planned Parenthood for non existent mammograms, and are responsible financially, whether or not it's murdered or born. Very proud that someone is willing to take up the fight, and to hell with the lawyers!
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nwar says... February 28, 2013 at 5:36 p.m.
Right edo, the majority in this state would probably be glad to go back to the days of Jim Crowe. Why don't you anti-abortion folks say what you really mean? You want to force women who have sick/deformed fetuses to give birth to them no matter what. Not only that, you want to decide when the mother's risk is "enough" to satisfy you. That's what this bill does you know. Almost all women who want elective abortions have them befoore 20 weeks. You know this. And if you don't, I'm sorry you are too ignorant to be commenting.
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lek52 says... February 28, 2013 at 6:44 p.m.
The idea of abortion sickens me. The idea that a bunch of legislators feel they have the right to take the right of a woman to have an abortion sickens me even more... What about the woman who doesn't believe a fetus is a human being? Who are we to say she is wrong? What about the 50 yr. old wife and mother of college students who thought she was going through menopause only to find out too late she is pregnant? Who are we to say she has to go through an unwanted pregnancy? In 1910 my great-grandmother died from blood-poisoning due to a self-inflicted abortion because she didn't want another child. She died at 40 yrs. old. Had she been able to seek medical help for this, she might have been able to live. My great grandfather was devestated by her death and died a few years later due to alcoholism. Before that, their 3 teenage children were taken from him and split up into different homes. All because the mother couldn't have a legal abortion, a family was destroyed... Laws such as this are setting us back 100 yrs. or at least to the 70'sbefore Roe v Wade. Where are women's rights??????? So sorry to those of you who are so pro-life that you cannot see the unconstitutionality of this ridiculous mess. Why aren't the people we voted into office helping to balance the budget or trying to figure out how to help the homeless rather than voting on stuff that is absolutley none of their business???? Being pregnant is more than bringing a baby to term. It is having to bring that child to adulthood. If the pro-lifers are so adament about their stance, I wonder if they are willing to make a pledge to take any unwanted child into their homes and raise them as their own at their own cost. Pro-abortion? Certainly not. Pro-choice? You're damn right I am.
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Walklady says... February 28, 2013 at 6:52 p.m.
@lek52 finally, an intelligent comment that makes sense!
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conritwng says... February 28, 2013 at 7:22 p.m.
I hope it goes all the way to the Supreme Court soon. Then maybe the Justices will rule that the fetus is a human being and has the right to LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT of HAPPINESS. This is way over due. We need to get some love back in this country along with some morality
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Packman says... February 28, 2013 at 8:09 p.m.
Hey Happy - Would you please define "handicapped"?
Hey Beeper - "My beliefs, my body, my choice." Yep. And when a woman CHOOSES to have unprotected sex purely for personal pleasure it is no longer ONLY her beliefs, her body, or her choice. It is now a shared choice with the father to kill the unborn child for convenience sake.
Hey lek52 - You are pro-death sentence to an unborn child. You good with that?
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NoUserName says... February 28, 2013 at 8:32 p.m.
All I gotta say: if this loses a court challenge, every politician that voted for it needs to reimburse the state the cost of litigation. And...I have always wanted to see what would happen if a 'pro death' license plate were proposed. I mean, I don't see how the state could really refuse.
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DerbiRider says... February 28, 2013 at 10:25 p.m.
What choice did Iraqi, Afghan, or Pakistani innocent men, women and children have when killed by drone strikes and collateral bomb damage at the hands of the U.S. military or CIA ? What choice did those individuals have whose lives were terminated by death sentences when there was a certain, and sometimes very certain, measure of doubt that they were the perpetrators of murder(s) that they had been convicted of ? What choice did similarly executed mentally limited individuals have when their capacity to understand the gravity or consequence of their action or sentence was lacking? If innocent life is indeed sacred then so called "pro-lifers" should be as vehement and vocal about these deaths as they are of the destruction of foeti. Unfortunately, many of the above terminated lives were either tenets of the wrong religion or perhaps possessed the wrong hue of skin to evoke much compassion from the typical "right-to-life" drum beater.
Were abortion to be criminalized nationwide then only the well-to-do would have access to safe and legal abortions by leaving the country to have the procedure. This is why the old established Republican (read that rich) can court the anti-abortion, evangelical vote while not having to actually live by that creed.
Most "pro-lifers" fail to examine the big picture of the issue beyond a superficial yet rigid stand.
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ARMind says... February 28, 2013 at 10:50 p.m.
DerbiRider and @lek52 will stated. If this issued had been brought before the people for a statewide vote like it would've failed just like it did in Mississippi. For someone to think that their Representative asked all their voters in their district how they should vote on this issue is a real joke. They maybe got advise from their campaign donors if they asked anyone at all. These representatives need to prepare for a real battle in two years.
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djigoo says... February 28, 2013 at 10:54 p.m.
Yet again, Arkansas becomes the punch line to a really sick joke.
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TimberTopper says... March 1, 2013 at 5:06 a.m.
A question for all you folks that are against abortion, How many of those unwanted children have you adopted and raised? Hows about putting your money, your time, and your life, where your mouth is. It's easy to condemn someone else, unless you've walked in their shoes. Kinda like these fool male legislators, wanting to make decisions that are not theirs to make. Stop all abortions, yet have everyone packing heat so it's easier to shoot each other, even in church. Mental evaluations are needed for some of those in public office!
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pmm says... March 1, 2013 at 5:26 a.m.
Just amazing how people can't just do what is right for themselves and think they know what is so right for everyone else. We all have our own beliefs, quit pushing yours onto the rest of us.
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Populist says... March 1, 2013 at 7:28 a.m.
Timbertopper,
My answer is two. No healthy baby born in this country is unwanted. Healthy babies are hard to adopt. Women now want to go out into the workforce for a number of years before settling down and having a family. There is no shortage of people in their thirties and early forties who want to adopt a baby because their reproductive equipment can't produce one. Older children can have a hard time being adopted when they multiple disabilities or are just very old. My husband and I applied to adopt a twelve-year-old once, but she decided to live with an elderly grandmother. If I had adopted her, we would be paying for college now. Instead, I am 53, and my youngest is in 5th grade.
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Beeper589 says... March 1, 2013 at 9:02 a.m.
To all of you who were critical of my position, let me respond by saying that I am not pro-abortion. No one is pro-abortion. In a perfect world, we wouldn't need the option but women should have the right to choose what to do with their bodies. I personally have never had an abortion and probably would not have because I would have never had an unwanted pregnancy. I tried for years and years to have a baby and was unsuccessful. Nothing would have made us happier. Adoption is a very difficult process and can be very expensive so that's not always an option for everyone either.
Harley - yes good kids do go bad but studies show that kids raised in a two parent household where the parents are involved in the kids school activies and after-school activites are more likely to do better in school and to go on to college or trade school and lead more productive lives. Yes, there is a lot of abuse of the government social programs and that needs to be fixed. However, as a member of this community, I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and ignore the world around me just because I don't agree. I will continue to read the newpaper and listen to the news so that I am informed and can make good decisions in my own life. I'm not weak and I don't let others dictate to me what I should believe or what decisions I should make. Furthermore, almost every post on here oppposing this decision is extending the poster's frustration as is a citizens right in the US to speak their mind so long as it does not prohibit another citizen from speaking theirs.
And Packman - I will continue to support the laws of our great Nation and live as best as I can within those laws and I'm good with my beliefs. Believe it or not, I was raised in the church and I believe in God AND a woman's right to choose.
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Sarah2789 says... March 1, 2013 at 10:10 a.m.
For the anti-abortion advocates, what gives you reason to believe you can make choices for me or any others? Make decisions for yourself. You aren't the Lord. If this is the representation of religion, God help us all. We answer to God not the Arkansas political leaders. Where is your sweet spirit, grace, forgiving nature? Vengeance belongs to God for wrong doing.
Maybe you should allow a moral investigator into your home and privacy to see how you cheat on your taxes, disparage your loved ones, have affairs, bad-mouth your neighbors, get drunk twice a week, gamble at casino's, defame instead of honor your parents, smack your wife around or kick your dog or sit in church and warm the pews just to be seen. Talk about Harper Valley PTA, you commenters had better open your eyes. We continually hear of leading politician's as well as ministers who began affairs, had wide-stances, I could go on and on, or start wars that kill people who are ALIVE and breathing but when called out on said behavior say "It is collateral damage."
I suggest to you men to be careful how far you tread on women's bodies, someday we may vote to remove testicles instead of having abortions. We are NOT under your control, we fought for equal rights and we will not be kept barefoot and pregnant. Shame on you women who would put women back in time. Remember the day when women couldn't vote? If some men had their way, the movie STEPFORD WIVES would become real life.
Read your history books and learn about women's suffrage and what they had to do to gain rights. Don't put women in the back of the bus.
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ToTheLeft says... March 1, 2013 at 12:11 p.m.
lek52,
One of the BEST responses ever! Bravo!
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Packman says... March 1, 2013 at 12:23 p.m.
Hey lek and Beeper - And I repeat, when a woman CHOOSES to have unprotected sex purely for personal pleasure it is no longer ONLY her beliefs, her body, or her choice. Killing an unborn child for the mother's convenience has no place in a civilized society. Yet, I too believe in the Rule of Law and will remain a law-abiding citizen all the time working to protect life. Pro Roe v Wade is pro abortion. To live in a state denial is dishonesty at the highest level. How sad that you are good with that.
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Dangarn says... March 1, 2013 at 1:21 p.m.
Sarah2789 you have a valid solution but I have a compromise that might make better sense, if both parties were willing participants then have her tubes tied and give him a vasectomy. I would bet that the cost of the procedures are not much more than an abortion in a lot of cases more than 1. This will stop any future problems and if at some point either party decides to have children then they can adopt. Is that enough sarcasm for you HotSpringsLawyer
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morebeer says... March 1, 2013 at 11:16 p.m.
All you good folks who keep calling an abortion the murder of a child, what do you call a miscarriage? About 20-25 percent of all pregnancies miscarry, yet, I rarely hear of anyone holding a Christian funeral service for a miscarried fetus or embryo. Don't see any listed in the obituaries. Are you sure terms you're throwing about? My apologies to anyone who has suffered a miscarriage. I understand it can be devastating.
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BarichMilhusseinObamaNixonPOTUS says... March 2, 2013 at 12:47 p.m.
I am against abortion, but women are going to have them no matter what the law says. What I do not want is any of my money paying for any of them. If you choose to have sex knowing you do not want to have a child you can pay for your choices. If you want to use birth control have at it but don't make my insurance pay for it.
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NoUserName says... March 2, 2013 at 2:37 p.m.
Only if *I* can choose which of YOUR services I want to pay for.
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BillSmith says... March 2, 2013 at 5:01 p.m.
cups .... how about my insurance paying for you to get it up, as in Viagra.
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BarichMilhusseinObamaNixonPOTUS says... March 2, 2013 at 6:52 p.m.
You know what's funny Bill is my wife asked me this morning if I would be the same way when I was your age. You know, someone who can do that without a problem with no medicine, ever. Doing it in the morning is fun though; does that answer your question? My wife would have such a laugh at your stupidity
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