House panel rejects raising minimum wage
By The Associated Press
This article was originally published March 5, 2013 at 7:05 a.m. Updated March 5, 2013 at 12:42 p.m.
- Comments (77)
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An Arkansas House panel has rejected a proposal to raise the state's minimum wage.
By a 6-10 vote, the House Committee on Public Health, Welfare and Labor on Tuesday rejected the measure that would have increased the state's minimum wage by $2 to $8.25. Two Democrats joined with Republicans on the panel to prevent the bill from advancing.
Some Arkansas workers are currently subject to the higher, federal minimum wage of $7.25.
The measure would have continued to exempt students working part-time from the full minimum wage.
Democratic Rep. Butch Wilkins of Bono, the sponsor of the bill, said it's unlikely he'll bring it up again this session.
Comments on: House panel rejects raising minimum wage
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JIMBOB47 says... March 5, 2013 at 8:25 a.m.
Too many of the 'workers' today aren't worth the $7.25. Raising it to 8.25 just guarantees the business owners will have to cut back. If you can't PRODUCE $7.25- worth of effort in an hour, what makes you think they'll pay you $8.25? I've always believed 'minimum wage' was a government's way of invoking UNIONISM.
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penber says... March 5, 2013 at 8:53 a.m.
Too many of the jobs today aren't worth $7.25, much less $8.25. Minimum wage should be motivation to learn more and get out of dead end jobs. Dead end jobs are necessary but do not deserve more than $7.25 an hour.
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DontDrinkDatKoolAid says... March 5, 2013 at 9 a.m.
Another aspect of the minimum wage. Union wages are predicated to the minimum wage in the form of a ratio, thus the higher the minimum wage, the higher a union member will be paid, and as per capitalism that cost will be past on down to the end consumer also.
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This could also push lots of folks into a higher tax bracket, so in the short term it would look good till tax time for State and Federal income filings.
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What the Arkansas legsulators should be doing is tax reform for the folks.
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Concerned_Citizen says... March 5, 2013 at 12:07 p.m.
I''m sure glad we have Jimbob & penber deciding who deserves what by their standards!! Must be the same standards I've heard all my life by the older folk....and I'm not young!! And no, the argument owners will have to cut back has been defeated several times. Like everytime the minimum wage is raised, miraculously owners hire more employees. Can't be because there is more people spending their higher wages.......
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LETSBEREALISTIC says... March 5, 2013 at 12:19 p.m.
The only workers that make minimum wage are into level who readily move above this if they have decent work ethic and those that are not worth anymore who will get cut with this move. The inflation rate has been nil for 4-5 years and unemployment is high. This is a dumb move on the part of the House.
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Pobucker says... March 5, 2013 at 12:22 p.m.
heh - if the dems were in charge, they would be looking at a MAXIMUM salary.
gotta be "fair" and have a "balanced" approach where the "richest folks" pay their "fair share". (that's commie talk, y'all)
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Jackabbott says... March 5, 2013 at 1:01 p.m.
No give the subsidies to the Koch Brothers and to Entergy for rate hikes so they can pass it along to their customers in Louisiana and Mississippi. But keep the "corporate slaves" in their place. Give them guns and expand Medicad.
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lazybar says... March 5, 2013 at 1:06 p.m.
this will only cause the rate of inflation to rise but i bet the pay rates for the middle class does not rise 25%.
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rainbowharold55 says... March 5, 2013 at 1:41 p.m.
Our folks are way too busy invading vaginas and arming everyone to do something decent. And needed.
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nmsmith0 says... March 5, 2013 at 2:45 p.m.
Jimbo, raising minimum wage $1/hr doesn't guarantee business owner will have to cut back. You need to cite reliable sources with data to back a statement like that up. And Penber, thank you so much for deciding who deserves what.
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RonalFos says... March 5, 2013 at 3:10 p.m.
If you think wages are fair in this country you should watch this video from beginning to end. In fact, every American should watch this video: mashable(dot)com/2013/03/02/wealth-inequality/
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Vickie55 says... March 5, 2013 at 3:35 p.m.
So the Senate overrules the veto on abortion after 12 weeks, but the House shuts down the minimum wage increase. So, all the children need to have the right to be born, but we are not doing anything at all to help the parents have the financial means to raise these children.
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HotSpringsLawyer says... March 5, 2013 at 3:53 p.m.
Big surprise. Soon they will try to eliminate minimum wage altogether. Next child labor laws.
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Walklady says... March 5, 2013 at 8:20 p.m.
Oh for crying out loud, the southern mentality strikes again! If people made more than minimum wage they would be motivated to give more to their jobs, have better attitudes and have something to look forward to! I've never lived in a more backward state than Arkansas! Alot of you folks here are downright hateful -- you want women to be forced to give birth to an unwanted child, but you sure don't want her to make more than minimum wage to raise that child. The AR lawmakers are a bunch of self righteous idiots!
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rockylittle says... March 5, 2013 at 9:12 p.m.
Walklady: 1. If you do not like it in Arkansas, no one is requiring you to stay here.
2. What caused the woman to have the unwanted child in the first place, was she involved ?
3. In times such as these it is not economically feasible to force an employer to incur additional expenses which could be harmful to his continuing in business.
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BillSmith says... March 5, 2013 at 10:02 p.m.
jimbob47 and penbar.... two peas in a pod. Stock Market hits all time record high after tanking in 2008. Corporate profits after taxes at all time high. CEO earnings to worker's at an all time high. The annual pace of homebuilding 23.6 percent higher than a year ago.
*
Census: Middle class shrinks to an all-time low
By Carol Morello,September 12, 2012
The vise on the middle class tightened last year, driving down its share of the income pie as the number of Americans in poverty leveled off and the most affluent households saw their portion grow, new census data released Wednesday showed.
Income inequality increased by 1.6 percent, the Census Bureau said in its annual report on poverty, income and health insurance. This was the biggest one-year increase in almost two decades and suggested that a trend in place since the late 1970s was picking up steam.
*
And we have these two learned indivuduals telling us that business owners will have to cut back if the minimun wage is increased. The problem is the ignorant Arkansas electorite one issue voters which includes guns, gays and religion. The majority of the voters that put these people in the legislature do not have a pot to p%% in or a window to through it out, but voted these idiots in because of one or all three of the previously stated issues. These are the same people that think the budget deficit has increased the 2.5 years, when actually it has gone down.
*
Recent US Federal Deficit Numbers
FY 2011: $1,300 billion
FY 2012: $1,089 billion
FY 2013*: $901 billion
*
I ask the two peas in the pod is this the right direction for the deficit to be going?
But, the two peas in the pod begrudge the people working for minimun wage a $1.00 and hour increase. The last minimum wage increase was 2006, I ask the two peas in the pod if they would like to go 7 years withoout a raise? What say you peas, as your buddy Bill O'Rilly would say?
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XAV8OR says... March 6, 2013 at 4:20 a.m.
I'm sure that all the folks in the unemployment line worried about their next house payment, their next car payment, and how they are going to feed their children will be pleased to know the stock market hit an all time high.
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NONSHEEPLE says... March 6, 2013 at 8:13 a.m.
house payment? car payments? Who can afford to BUY houses and cars in these times? MOST are limping around in beat up rides praying the wheels don't fall off and renting because they can't save enough for downpayments.
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lazybar says... March 6, 2013 at 9:17 a.m.
bs,your hero mentioned a $2 per hour fed increase but lets go with the states dollar increase.there are companies like mcdonalds that start off employees at $8 per hour.if this increase was to happen do you think they would continue to pay 75 cents above min?lets say they did raise everyone they employee a dollar.mcdonalds has not been in business this long being nonprofitable.a shift of 10 people and being open 16 hours a day would cost them $160 per day.thats chump change for mcdonalds right?thats $58k per location they will now have to overcome.2 things will happen one they will cut some hours and two either they will raise prices or cut portions.so now the person who was getting 32 hours a week is now getting 28 hours and the consumer is going to see a per pound increase.who will pay for this,the middle class.say your making $10 per hour,will raising min wage help or hurt you?your taxes will be higher to pay for more needing assistance and your dollar will be worth less in the check out line.raising the min wage devalues those that are making above min wage and is a slap in the face to those companies that are trying to pay above the $7.25 to keep better workers.
vickie if you can`t feedem don`t breedem
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nwar says... March 6, 2013 at 10:14 a.m.
Union wages are NOT pegged to the minimum wage -- where did you get that insane idea Koolaid? I guess the "two peas' just want an America with the ultra rich and a bunch of serfs. Fewer and fewer Americans are making it into the middle class and staying there. And you two would like to keep that trend up? And for all you morality enforcers that feel no responsibility at all for unwanted children, can you not see the hypocrisy of your views? It is just fine with you to punish the mother since she had sex, but you don't seem to care that in punishing her, you also are hurting the child -- you remember that child that you so much wanted to be born?
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DontDrinkDatKoolAid says... March 6, 2013 at 11:09 a.m.
Union Earnings Rise
Union leaders may well believe that raising the minimum wage is a good policy for America, but they also know that it is a good policy for their members. Union members earning above $7.25 an hour benefit directly from raising the minimum wage because it reduces the competition they face from less skilled workers.
Â
This is not just a theoretical argument. Researchers have found that this is what happens when the minimum wage rises. Using data from government surveys, economists at the Federal Reserve and the University of California-Irvine examined how past increases in the minimum wage affected the earnings of both low-income and unionized workers.[7]
Â
They found that increasing the minimum wage had few statistically significant effects for unionized workers who earn well above the minimum wage. For example, United Auto Workers members in Detroit who earn $75 an hour do not usually perform work that could be done by any number of unskilled workers. But the minimum wage significantly increases the earnings of union members who compete with low-skilled workers for jobs. The researchers estimated that if the minimum wage were hiked 40 percent, unionized workers who earn between the minimum wage and twice the minimum wage could see their earnings rise between 20 and 40 percent.[8] The evidence shows that a higher minimum wage unambiguously helps union members.
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ww w.heritage. org/research/reports/2007/02/union-members-not-minimum-wage-earners-benefit-when-the-minimum-wage-rises
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Coralie says... March 6, 2013 at 12:18 p.m.
Hi, WalkLady,
I too am from elsewhere more enlightened, thugh my roots in Arkansas go back 60 years now (which is probably longer than some of you who would tell me to go back where I came from).
If I had the $$wherewithal I probably would move elsewhere., now that Arkansas is making itself a laughingstock again. It's not that easy to move at 83 living on Social Security. And other people may be stuck for other reasons.
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Coralie says... March 6, 2013 at 12:45 p.m.
Of course first you have to buy into the debt hysteria.
"But America does not face a debt crisis. Nor are we likely to face one in the next 100 years. In fact, we are the last country on Earth that needs to worry about its public debt.
What’s really behind the debt histrionics is a relentless effort by these Very Important People to use a trumped-up crisis to shred the social safety net and bring forth their bleak vision of a dog-eat-dog society where government provides for no one (except the super-rich). "
"8 Facts that Prove Our Government Is Not Going Broke," alternet. org/economy/8-fac (close up the space)
And here's an interesting perspective on Obama the big spender: tinyurl. com/77n6ayx
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T6 says... March 6, 2013 at 1:35 p.m.
Well Coralie then why are the Demwits wanting MORE taxes?
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lazybar says... March 6, 2013 at 2:28 p.m.
coralie is it our fault at 83 you didnt better prepare for your golden years?your right we are not facing a debt crises........not as long as china and others keep loaning us money that is
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Packman says... March 6, 2013 at 4:21 p.m.
Hey BillSmith - "The problem is the ignorant Arkansas electorite one issue voters which includes guns, gays and religion." Speaking of ignorant, how can "one" issue be three? LMAO!
And Yeehaaa for the stock market and my Wal-Mart stock! You might want to do a little homework, however, as to why the stock market is zooming. Record high gas prices? Probably not. Record levels of federal spending? Highly unlikely. Faith in a community organizer as POTUS? Not a chance. Natural process of an economic system as explained by the "Bowstring Effect"? Look it up, BillSmith, and you'll begin to understand why the stock market is reacting in such a manner.
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Coralie says... March 6, 2013 at 5:22 p.m.
Neither T6, Lazybar, nor Packman bothered to read either of my links. Too much trouble to close up a space, I s"pose. Too hard to think a thought that they never thought before.
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HotSpringsLawyer says... March 6, 2013 at 6:05 p.m.
Big man insulting 83-yr. old woman. Though she seems more than a match for you.
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BarichMilhusseinObamaNixonPOTUS says... March 6, 2013 at 7:09 p.m.
Oh yes Lawyer, worrying about who you insult on the Internet where anyone can lie must be high on everyone's priority list.
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BarichMilhusseinObamaNixonPOTUS says... March 6, 2013 at 7:27 p.m.
Apparently most people do not understand a budget in this argument. Every business owner has a certain amount in their budget for wages and benefits; force them to increase either one and they will figure out a way to maintain their profits (oh the horrors) by cutting back on one or the other. If you don't think a rise in minimum wage will either slow the raise/promotion process or cause them to hire more students who are exempt from the minimum wage you are nuts.
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Packman says... March 6, 2013 at 8:27 p.m.
Hey Coralie - What in my post was even remotely related those links?
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lazybar says... March 7, 2013 at 9:26 a.m.
gary miller it was not meant as a insult but sometimes the truth does sound like one.i just simply ask why she felt it was our fault?at 83 living on a fixed income i`m sure times are tough but from the post i take it that she was 23 when she moved here.she had 60 years to make her mark on this world and get out of this state she hates but instead she didn`t prepare for her golden years because she put faith in people like obozo were going to take care of her.seeing how retired people struggle should be incentive to prepare but everyone thinks that just because they pay into ss at 65 they can retire.
no coralie i didn`t read your link.if you posted something that was towards the middle every once in a while i might read your link but you would feel fine living in a total socialist world and to me thats not living.not meaning to insult your views because i sure don`t your meat wagon chaser scolding me but looking at history no socialist government has worked for vey long and it ends up leaving everyone hungry
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Coralie says... March 7, 2013 at 11:13 a.m.
"she had 60 years to...get out of this state she hates "
What a bunch of assumptions, Lazybar/lazy thinker.
First I have not lived in Arkansas continuously since first moving here as bride of a man from Little Rock. But I've logged about 35 years altogether.
Second, I don't hate the state, but I do feel it has been declining rapidly in recent days.
Third, I wasn't blaming anybody for the fact I'm elderly or living on Social Security. I'm very glad that Social Security is there! I paid into it from the time I worked in a print shop the summer I was 15, and now it's supporting me at about the same level as the average world income (and far above the median world income).
However, health and relatively low income wouldn't allow me to move out of state very easily, much less to a villa near the Pyrenees.
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Coralie says... March 7, 2013 at 11:18 a.m.
More assumptions:
"you would feel fine living in a total socialist world"
Are you talking about social democracies such as those in northern Europe? Mixed economies with capitalism, cooperatives, some nationalized industries, and a more adequate social safety net?
Or are you talking about totalitarian countries such as the old USSR or present-day China?
If you figure out what YOU are talking about, then you can start guessing about what I want.
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Packman says... March 7, 2013 at 11:45 a.m.
Hey Coralie - "I'm very glad that Social Security is there! I paid into it from the time I worked in a print shop the summer I was 15....." Just curious, but have you ran the numbers to see if you have received more than what you paid in? If so, reckon where that money comes from? And are you on Medicare as well? Reckon where the money comes from to pay your medical bills? When was the last time you paid any federal income tax (net)? Could it be said you are a prototypicl entitlement addict whose votes are bought with other people's money? Point being to a certain extent, you are already living the socialist dream.
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lazybar says... March 7, 2013 at 12:16 p.m.
coralie i`m very content in my feeling that you believe the government should take care of everyone from the craddle to the grave.if you think the communism and socialism are the same you better think again.if you don`t hate arkansas you sure whine a lot about it.
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Coralie says... March 7, 2013 at 5:10 p.m.
Social Security, like commercial insurance, is based on actuarial tables. Yes, I've probably outlived my contributions, but somebody else who died at 61 paid in and never collected. Payroll taxes are collected from many undocumented aliens who never get the benefits.
None of my Social Security comes from "taxpayers" aka income tax.
And Packman, Medicare is not entirely free to its recipients. First they paid Medicare tax as part of payroll tax. Then $100+ is taken out monthly from their Social Security check. There is a yearlyl deductible. Medicare doesn't pay for every procedure, and the recipient or his private Medigap insurance pays 20%.
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Coralie says... March 7, 2013 at 5:14 p.m.
Since you're so grumpy about Social Security and Medicare, Packman, I'll assume you're under 65. Therefore it's likely that my time in Arkansas goes back earlier than yours.
I mean I lived in Arkansas before you were born.
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Coralie says... March 7, 2013 at 5:20 p.m.
Lazy says "if you think the communism and socialism are the same you better think again."
I don't, but wanted to determine if you do. So what is your definition of socialism?
Wikipedia says "There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them. They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets or planning, how management is to be organised within productive institutions, and the role of the state in constructing socialism."
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BillSmith says... March 7, 2013 at 7:30 p.m.
lazybar..... you put out the same old doom and gloom for McDonald's that the GOP has spread since there was a McDonald's AND guess what there is still a McDonald's and more going in every week. Your spin does not pass muster simply because history makes it out to be a lie.
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inquire says... March 7, 2013 at 11:51 p.m.
Coralie, I'm sure this handful of vicious right wing Ayn Rand tea potter men on here who are so hateful to Democratic or progressive women will altruistically donate their social security to the national debt and refuse their Medicare.
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lazybar says... March 8, 2013 at 9:07 a.m.
coralie for any government to work for the good of the people there must be a certain amount of socialism.such as education,military,police,fire,and infrastructure but there also has to be capitalism to prosper.when social programs overrun capitalism then you run out of means to fund the social programs.ss was not meant to be a perminate fixture nor was it meant to be a loan means of survival.just as the minumim wage was not designed to support a family.
bs,where did you see that i said mcdonalds would close?mcdonalds would survive if min wage was bumped to $10 per hour,but for them to continue to maintain a profit they would have to cut hours for that college student that they really didn`t need on that shift and the happy meals would end up like you and be a few fries shy.
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LevitiCuss says... March 8, 2013 at 9:44 a.m.
I've never paid anybody less than $15/hour, and these are people scraping my house and digging trench. I would have paid them more if I could afford it. Many of the morons on here probably aren't aware of the FACT that Henry Ford started out paying HIS workers TWICE the going rate- because he knew that for his business model to work, his workers had to be able to afford to buy his cars. Our entire economy is dependent upon CONSUMPTION. Beating people down doesn't help anything. Please edumacate yourselves to real life in the 21st century.
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LevitiCuss says... March 8, 2013 at 9:46 a.m.
BTW- Henry Ford's manufacturing competitors actually SUED him for paying his workers so much, and won. They were eventually awarded $1. You can decide for yourselves whether he was a success or not.
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Packman says... March 8, 2013 at 10:38 a.m.
Hey Coralie - Thanks for acknowledging the point. It doesn't make you a bad person to live off the sweat of others. It would be nice, however, if you would be more grateful to the producers and entrepreneurs who foot the bill. And your SS does come from taxpayers. Any fee levied by the government is a tax. Regarding payroll taxes, it's the capitalist entrepreneurs that create the jobs that account for that partucluar tax. Again, it would be nice if you showed a little respect for the capitalistic system that protects your well-being.
Hey inquire - How many times have you figured you household's federal taxes and "altruistically" added 50% to help fund your precious federal government? Are you a hypocrite? Currently, when the time comes my plans are to donate every penny of my social security to Right to Life organizations and/or the NRA. As to Medicare, I've NEVER said it was a bad thing. Rest assured, however, that in my twilight years I will have sufficient resources to seek medical treatment from a preferred provider and not some politically connected numnutts mandated by the person who now works at the DMV handing out driver's licenses.
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lazybar says... March 8, 2013 at 11:37 a.m.
levi correct me if i`m wrong but don`t you live in california?is the cost of living in california much greater than in our state,so one would need to make more to make the dollars equal out?would you not call henry fords workers skilled workers,not the type that work at min wage jobs?i`ve never worked at either but i imagine the cooks at shogun make atleast twice what mcdonalds does.
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inquire says... March 8, 2013 at 12:18 p.m.
Packman, you just can't be nice, can you? Coralie is not living off of others. She is living off the social security she paid into, a program that, as Bill has pointed out many times, always takes in more than it pays out. The condescension of you men toward her is disgusting.
I am not old enough for medicare and fell through the insurance cracks due to a preexisting condition. I pay for all my medical care at my preferred provider. I get nothing from the government. When I am 65, if the tea party hasn't killed medicare, I will STILL be able to choose my provider. I know that sometimes there is a waiting list for new medicare patients to get on with a certain doctor, but I am making sure that I am already an established patient, so that will not be an issue.
The attitude you men show on here makes it obvious that you are younger than us and think you know it all. Things usually look different when you actually get to our age, no matter how much hot air you blow beforehand.
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Coralie says... March 8, 2013 at 12:59 p.m.
How about Norway as an example of a mixed economy? Higher per capita GDP than U.S.
Wikipedia says:
"The economy of Norway is a developed mixed economy with heavy state-ownership in strategic areas of the economy....the public sector is among the largest in the world as a percentage of the overall gross domestic product. The country has a very high standard of living compared with other European countries, and a strongly integrated welfare system."
Does that fit your idea of a good balance of capitalism and socialism, Packman?
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RailroadM33 says... March 8, 2013 at 1:01 p.m.
Recent US Federal Deficit Numbers
FY 2011: $1,300 billion is 1.3 Trillion
FY 2012: $1,089 billion is 1.089 trillion
FY 2013*: $901 billion is .901 trillion so far this year
Stating the deficit in billions under emphasizes the trouble we are in!
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Coralie says... March 8, 2013 at 2:16 p.m.
Railroad, did you miss these earlier links?
"8 Facts that Prove Our Government Is Not Going Broke," alternet. org/economy/8-fac (close up the space)
And here's an interesting perspective on Obama the big spender: tinyurl. com/77n6ayx
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lazybar says... March 8, 2013 at 2:31 p.m.
coralie did you miss looking at the world around you?
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HotSpringsLawyer says... March 8, 2013 at 3:31 p.m.
Happy International Women's Day!
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T6 says... March 8, 2013 at 4:24 p.m.
Coralie... have you tried to access those links you posted?
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Pobucker says... March 8, 2013 at 4:34 p.m.
Coralie, every successful socialist country has one thing in common and it is the one reason socialism would fail in the US as it has in other places. Cultures as diverse as Singapore and Denmark hold this thing in common.
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Successful sociaist countries have homogenous societies. Nobody in Sweden gets pissy if the garbage man makes the same as the doctor. Nobody gets pissy if the garbage man moves next door to the doctor. These counties operate socially more like an extended family than a melting pot like us.
heh - just try to "retire" in Finland or Austrailia. They won't like you.
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Packman says... March 8, 2013 at 4:52 p.m.
Hey inquire - Coralie is absolutely living off the sweat of others, and admits as much by acknowledging as that she is now taking more than she EVER paid in. IN what warped world is that not living off others. Again that doesnt' make it bad, but it is what it is.
Hey Coralie - If you want to have earnest debate you must cite sources other than Wikipedia. That source is about as reliable as Archie Bunker attending a meeting of the ACLU (and I used Archie Bunker because I know you are old enough to know who he is/was). And when you report back to compare the economies of Norway and the US, please define how their public sector employees are paid, the percentage of their GDP that is service and retail versus manufacturing, the percentage that is agricluture based, what determines a "high" standard of living. It would be prudent for you address Pobucker's points as well.
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inquire says... March 8, 2013 at 4:59 p.m.
Social security is retirement insurance. Coralie is no more living off others than you are when you buy an insurance policy, pay premiums, get sick, file a claim, and the bill is paid. There are others who have paid the same premium, but do not get sick. How would you like it if they unkindly said you were living off of them?
Social security works the same way. Everyone pays. Some live a long life, others die young. Some people pay into social security for forty or fifty years, then tragically die just a year after retirement. Variances like this are what make any insurance work.
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inquire says... March 8, 2013 at 5:05 p.m.
Coralie, don't fall for Packman's diversionary tactic of throwing out endless questions for you to answer whenever you say something he doesn't agree with. He never disagrees by providing information justifying his disagreement; he just tries to distract by demanding that you answer fifty questions as if he were the professor in charge of everyone.
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TimberTopper says... March 9, 2013 at 4:51 a.m.
Well really it's a matter of being selfish. The attitude of whatever I get is good but others are not as deserving as me. It's the Republican attitude! So, if you vote that way why not be a person of conviction and live that way. If you vote that way and are earning above the minimum wage in an unskilled job, go to your boss and ask for a pay cut, back to the minimum wage. If you ever loose your job, don't draw unemployment. If you get disabled, draw only the amount from Social Security that you have paid in, or if you go on Social Security retirement have them stop your checks at the time you draw out what you have paid in. If you should die as a young person with children that are young, be sure that you and your wife have drawn up SS refusal documents for any amount of monies over your paid in amount, so that you and yours won't be a TAKER. If you feel that taking away a womans rights was the correct thing to do, be sure to adopt and raise an unwanted child with your money. Oh and don't file personal bankruptcy, go to a debtors prison. Go to church, sing loud, thump the Bible, and just
pass over the parts about helping those in need, or being our brothers keeper. After all that is the way you voted. Be a person of principal and live by it!
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LevitiCuss says... March 9, 2013 at 9:29 a.m.
And then TT wraps a ribbon around it and ties a big bow on top. Thanks for that most astute observation, sir.
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Coralie says... March 9, 2013 at 11:33 a.m.
Pobucker, please be more careful with your terms when talking about "socialist" countries. All countries have mixed economies, with both public sector and private sector.
You might find this article of interest: A libertarian-leaning British think tank, Legatum, released its 2012 index of world prosperity.
"The index identifies eight 'foundations' for national success, including factors such as effective and accountable government, personal freedom, national security and personal safety....
Which free-market society tops the list?
Norway.
What??? Norway? That socialist hellhole? Where entrepreneurs pay a tax rate 33% higher than they do in Massachusetts?... Where the government controls the country's largest industry, where they run probably the world's most generous welfare state? Where they publish all tax returns on the Internet to deter cheating? That Norway?
Oh well, Norway is a petro-state and oil prices have been high. We can dismiss this as an aberration. Who's number two? Denmark. And three? Sweden. The rest of the list: Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Finland, Netherlands, Switzerland, and Ireland. The US ranks at 12th....
All are also more regulated and taxed than the USA - and in particular, all impose regulations on the banking sector compared to which Dodd-Frank seems a banker's bill of rights. All have universal health coverage. Most offer much plusher social insurance deals than the United States...Certainly, none display the concentration of wealth we see in the United States."
thedailybeast. com/articles/2012/10/30/who-s-the-least-socialist-of-them-all. html
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Coralie says... March 9, 2013 at 11:46 a.m.
Pobucker says "[All] successful sociaist countries have homogenous societies."
However, Canada looks like an exception to your rule. Over the last half-century Canada has been a leading destination for immigrants, most of them non-Suropean and now comprising about one-third of the population.
Canada has had greater tolerance for ethnic diversity than the U.S. has had. Their metaphor is a mosaic, not a melting-pot.
What Canada did not have is instiutionalized slavery or its aftermath.
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Coralie says... March 9, 2013 at 11:53 a.m.
Thanks Inquire and TimberTopper for your advice and support! It's good to hear from people using their noggins.
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arky870 says... March 9, 2013 at 1:18 p.m.
stop arguing with idiots. they bring you down to the level they are on and then beat you with experience
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Coralie says... March 9, 2013 at 4:35 p.m.
I don't feel I've been beaten by idiots.
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Packman says... March 9, 2013 at 10:26 p.m.
Hey inquire - The bane of critical thought is the refusal to question wisdom that is offerred as conventional. The throttle of ignorance is the refusal to consider alternatives. Your advice to Coralie is the furtherance of ignorance. You really don't undertand, do you? And whether you want to admit it or not, people like Coralie are the drones in a beehive. People like me work to support the Coralie's of the world. We don't mind our role in society, and understand some people give while others do nothing but receive. Coralie is an entitlement addict who votes based on what she perceives as her best interests.
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inquire says... March 10, 2013 at 1:58 a.m.
Packman, you are reprehensible. You DO realize that to be eligible for social security, Coralie has to have WORKED. The Ayn Rand/Tea Party campaign to try to equate the social security and medicare, that people have worked for and contributed to all their lives, with welfare, is positively EVIL.
Coralie has had a varied and interesting working life and is also a writer. Calling her a drone is arrogant, disrespectful, and untrue.
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Coralie says... March 10, 2013 at 3:09 p.m.
I just consider the source.
People whose only arguments are personal abuse and unsupported assertions only make me laugh.
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Coralie says... March 10, 2013 at 3:12 p.m.
Packman says "People like me work to support the Coralie's of the world."
And I worked to support the Packmans of the world, their sons or grandsons.
Unless, Packman, you refuse to accept Social Security when you are 66 or 67. Will you live up to your principles that way?
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Packman says... March 10, 2013 at 8:27 p.m.
Hey Coralie (and inquire) - You are the one that said you are likely now taking more than you ever paid into SS. Facts are facts and that's all I'm stating. You may recall I said it doesn't make the Coralie's of the world bad people. Their lack of appreciation for us worker bees, however, is somewhat disconcerting. And you being a prototypical liberal, I understand why you have such a distaste for people who ask of you questions. It hurts your head to think and is much easier to simply regurgitate things that suit your personal narrative. Questions are only diversionary to those who possess the narrowest of minds. And Coralie, you must have missed it where I said I plan to donate my SS to either a right-to-life organization or the NRA.
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Coralie says... March 11, 2013 at 1:04 p.m.
"those who possess the narrowest of minds"
and who can't follow a logical argument
and whose preferred means of discussion is personal abuse and insults
.
I don't know how old you are, Packman, but when you are retirement age I hope you announce it in a press conference about how you are donating your Social Security to the NRA and anti-abortion organizations. I believe that legally you would have to accept the benefit and then donate it yearly. Think what a lot of good publicity for your beliefs!
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Populist says... March 11, 2013 at 4:03 p.m.
Packman,
We all benefit from living in these great United States. While you like to think that you did everything by yourself, you didn't. Many people have helped you along the way...from the veterans who have fought for this country to the teachers who tried to teach your sorry self in school. You have no reason to look down your nose at Coralie, who I suspect is the salt of the earth.
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Packman says... March 11, 2013 at 4:57 p.m.
Hey Populist - When did I ever say what I've accomplished in life was purely of my own accord? As to Coralie being salt of the Earth, that's a hard thing to say about someone who supports the killing of unborn children purely for convenience sake. And let's get back to the point. Coralie likes to speak of the greatness of governement redistribution of wealth and socialism, while simultaneously benefitting from the fruits of capitalism. The hypocrisy of which I've easily illustrated. She admits that she is now taking more than she ever contributed into SS, which I've said before and will say again doesn't make her a bad person. Ungrateful to those of us her make her largesse possible, maybe, but that's about it.
Hey Coralie - The very nature of a donation is that the resource must first be received before it can be donated. Are you by chance like inqurie and have an ingrained hatred for those who question wisdom, conventional and otherwise? Oh my, there I go again, asking questions and making you think.......
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HotSpringsLawyer says... March 11, 2013 at 5:24 p.m.
You dont win an argument just by proclaiming that you did. Think again.
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Coralie says... March 11, 2013 at 5:45 p.m.
What Packman says I believe has very little to do with what I DO believe or what I have said about it online. Complete distortion of my positilon.
Either he can't understand anything very complex or he just likes to antagonize people for the fun of it--which would make him near-relative to an Internet troll.
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inquire says... March 11, 2013 at 7:25 p.m.
Bingo!
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DontDrinkDatKoolAid says... March 11, 2013 at 8:09 p.m.
I see that some folks here have no job.
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inquire says... March 13, 2013 at 2:28 a.m.
Depends on how one defines "job". I run a home, cook, keep track of our finances, help keep a two acre yard, volunteer in my community, and deal with the needs of both a disabled husband and elderly, nearly housebound mother. Not a slacker, even in retirement. If you are so busy, what are you doing here?
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